To have expected dd to stay home?

[champagnetruffleshuffle]

No one in the family had plans this evening so DH and I decided to have a very rare evening out to the local cinema, leaving dd16 and ds13 at home. Dd16 came downstairs at dinner time saying she wants to go out to a neighbouring town and asked for a lift. We told her our plans and that the film didn't finish until 10.40 pm and we didn't want ds left on his own at home all evening.

We arrive home from the cinema to find ds on his own, dd had gone out at 9.45 pm to meet a local friend. She'd snap chatted me telling me whilst we were watching the film with our phones turned off. I turned my phone on when the film finished but my data was still off.

Ds is alright with being at home alone, but dh and I weren't happy as we'd be back quite late and weren't easily contactable.

I'm so cross with her right now. I know he was pretty safe but we made it clear we didn't want him left. AIBU? And wwyd?

YABU - 13 is old enough to be home alone, you can't exorcist 16yo to stay in on a Saturday night
YANBU - She went against our wishes and I'm right to be cross.

Sounds like you weren't very clear....

It does depend on the 13 year old but as long as you can be contacted, which you could have been. You were at the cinema so a few looks at your phone if on, silent to check all ok at home. I would have text to check all ok at home, through the film.

No, I'm sorry and I say this as the eldest child in my family. The care for your 13 year old is your responsibility as parents and yours alone. The 16 year old isn't and shouldn't be responsible for that. It's up to you, as parents, to provide appropriate childcare and not to put that responsibility on your other kids.

I was often left in charge of my younger brother as a young teenager, who was an utter fucking nightmare. I couldn't control him and he didn't listen to a word I said. Yet somehow it was my fault when he did whatever he did. Despite him never paying attention to our parents when they were in charge. Quite why they thought he would listen to me when he didn't listen to them I have no idea.

Please don't make your DD responsible for this. As I can attest, she might never forgive you. I'm 56, my Mum is 81 and it still angers me that I was put in that position.

You sound like you told her your plans just before they happened, after she had made plans. In which case YOU shouldn't have gone, because it is YOUR responsibility to look after YOUR child, not you daughter's. Your babysitter wasn't available so you don't go. It is perfectly reasonable to get you daughter to babysit, but not to expect her to drop all to cover a non-emergency. That's what you called selfish and trying to fob off your parental responsibilities onto someone else!

Issue 2 - what did you actually tell your daughter? Planning ahead and asking her to stay in one night would be fine. However, you say " We told her our plans and that the film didn't finish until 10.40 pm and we didn't want ds left on his own at home all evening." If this is what you actually said, then why be cross at your daughter for following your instructions PERFECTLY. She went out at 9.40, your film finished at 10.40. You said don't leave DS alone all evening, which she didn't. Even supposing, you live an hour from the cinema (which I doubt), she left him at home for a couple of hours, which is NOT all evening at all.

I don't think it's wrong to expect an older child to babysit a younger child with warning, discussion about what's convenient, and clear agreement on expectations, but is frankly sounds like you didn't bother with any of these and now are cross that she didn't do as you wanted, that is unfair.

Unless you specifically asked her to stay home and she agreed you are unreasonable.

If I understand correctly, you told her that you did not want DS left alone all evening, and she stayed until within an hour of your expected arrival. That's not "all evening," especially not to a teenager, as they are all masters of finding loopholes. Now, it was probably a bad decision on her part, but again...teenagers. They are not known for making good decisions.

MOST 13-year-olds are more than capable of managing for 1-2 hours, at the least. At that age, I was running my mom's motel's office for 3-4 hours in the evening if they wanted to go out to dinner. Different time, entirely, but "home alone" didn't come into it. They knew I was capable for it. It varies by child. HOWEVER, if your DS did just fine, that's now something you know.

You said it was a "very rare" visit to the cinema and I think it is not unreasonable for a 16 year old to be asked to keep an eye on a younger sibling for a few hours, though generally speaking I think a 13 year old can be left on their own for this amount of time. It depends on the 13 year old though.

I don't understand why it is thought so awful for a parent to ask an older child to help with this sort of issue. Obviously, on a regular basis, it would not be great (though I expect there are plenty of older children who have to take responsibility for younger siblings, while their parents work shifts. Not desirable, of course, but sometimes unavoidable for some people).

Why did you turn your phone off?? Surely even at 16 children need to beable to contact you incase off emergency!!!

Sorry, but in any circumstances is it usual for 16 years olds to go out at 9.45pm? Especially without asking a parent?

Only skimmed OP's posts.
I leave my 14 yo alone up to quite late a night fairly often (I seem to be over compensating for not being able to for years as a lone parent!).
In the cinema I turn my phone to silent but have it so I can see if DS needs to contact me.
If I genuinely can't be contacted at all then I would make sure he knows which adult to contact in an emergency.

If you didn’t ask your 16 year old to babysit your 13 year old well in advance of the Saturday night, you were unreasonable to expect her to just stay home.

The reason for that is YOU chose to have children. She’s not responsible for your 13YO

Did you ask her to babysit and check if she had plans or not? If you just assumed she had nothing planned and that she would therefore babysit then yes, you are being unreasonable.

Also, did you actually say ‘you can’t go out’ or just that you didn’t want 13YO left for too long?

If ds can't be left alone for the evening, it may be better to arrange someone to look after him. Or pay DD to give up her plans to babysit, you can hold her to the arrangement then like you would with any paid babysitter. I think you are being unreasonable to expect her to stay in and watch your child, it's not her job and she may have her own children one day and be restricted in her own plans. Teenage years are for living!

Definitely not being unreasonable. The issues isn’t anything to do with DS being old enough to be home alone - it’s that DD agreed to stay in with him for you and then left him without you knowing. Had you of known I imagine you would’ve said it was fine for that last hour but I’d definitely not be happy that you were unaware and DD went against what you’d said x

Yes mine didn't ask permission at that age, they're not babies.

Get a babysitter then.

He wasn't alone all evening - he was alone for an hour maybe and possibly should have been in bed /asleep then

I don't think dd did anything wrong

She let you know via Snapchat

But you turned your phone off

YABU
My question is when she was 13, was she allowed to stay home on her own?

I am so surprised at many of these comments. I suppose I must have had strict parents as, when I was 16, I couldn’t just wander off at night time to a friend’s house and disobey them.

Only you know if your 13 year old is capable of taking care of himself for a few hours while you're out. If you felt he needed watching you should have considered paying for a sitter or discussing it with DD first to see if she was willing to watch him. You can't use older kids to babysit whenever you want them to, even if it's rare, he's not her child and not her responsibility unless she agrees to watch him. Making teens cancel plans or giving them no choice but to be responsible for younger siblings is a guaranteed way of causing unnecessary sibling rivalry and can damage your adult relationship with them.

Had you asked her to babysit beforehand?

This. People who expect their older children to help parent their younger children make me crazy. Did you offer her money to babysit her brother? Did you ask her opinion or how she felt about it? Give her some notice? No? You haven’t had a night out in ages because you have children. It’s not your daughters responsibility to look after DS so you can go out. Next time book a babysitter.

Hear hear! I honestly feel bad for the daughter. I wonder just how much of their parenting responsibility they offload on her.

It's not actually unreasonable though, teenagers can help on the odd occasion and not be purely self serving, it's not a bad thing.

Anyway , at 16 my parents would have been annoyed if I ignored their request, and as a parent I would be too.

Do family/children really need to be paid if they're helping the parents on what I assume is a rare occasion.

No wonder there are so many super entitled teens and young adults now!