To have expected dd to stay home?

[champagnetruffleshuffle]

No one in the family had plans this evening so DH and I decided to have a very rare evening out to the local cinema, leaving dd16 and ds13 at home. Dd16 came downstairs at dinner time saying she wants to go out to a neighbouring town and asked for a lift. We told her our plans and that the film didn't finish until 10.40 pm and we didn't want ds left on his own at home all evening.

We arrive home from the cinema to find ds on his own, dd had gone out at 9.45 pm to meet a local friend. She'd snap chatted me telling me whilst we were watching the film with our phones turned off. I turned my phone on when the film finished but my data was still off.

Ds is alright with being at home alone, but dh and I weren't happy as we'd be back quite late and weren't easily contactable.

I'm so cross with her right now. I know he was pretty safe but we made it clear we didn't want him left. AIBU? And wwyd?

YABU - 13 is old enough to be home alone, you can't exorcist 16yo to stay in on a Saturday night
YANBU - She went against our wishes and I'm right to be cross.

I think in a healthy family dynamic, it wouldn't be a transactional thing, your teenager will agree to do things for you as well just because they see themselves as part of a team.

When my mother would ask me to hang out the washing for her, it would never have occurred to me to think "oh ok since she drove two hours for me last week, I'll do it just this once" or "I don't think I have had enough done for me, I will ask to be paid"

I also just don't think this is some enormous favour anyway, no one's sending this girl down the mine

I agree with you @arintingly.

Parent/child relationships shouldn't be transactional, which is why i think the fact that OP says she goes "above and beyond" is irrelevant, really.

I don't think a 16yo being expected to babysit a 13yo is any different to expecting that 16yo to also do laundry or vacuum or walk the dog. It's just part of living in a household with other people.

But I do think that because of the time it takes, it needs to be discussed well in advance, not dumped on them at the last minute (emergencies aside, of course).

@margotrose I think the OP may have thought last minute was actually more considerate than well in advance as she then arranged it for a time when the DD had no plans, as opposed to asking her to keep it clear when something she really wanted to do might have come up

Maybe so. It reads like there was lots of miscommunication all round.

I think the 16yo thought that leaving the 13yo alone for an hour or so was fine as it wasn't leaving him "all evening", whereas OP expected her to stay in all evening.

I can see where the confusion happened. OP and her DH didn't help themselves by being un-contactable either!

No, it's not really like that. For one thing I did those things because they were good kids, not as leverage to make them be. But generally it's more a lesson in consequences. If DC had been unhelpful selfish people who did nothing for any other family member, then they shouldn't expect other people to go out of their way for them. This is a life lesson in reaping what you sow. Conversely, if you pull your weight and make other lives easier there is more time and inclination from people to do the same for you, and if someone goes out of their way to help you, you may remember how appreciative you were and pay that forward.
Its not about owing big favours, its about making other people's lives better, as a two way street and teaching your children that some family members (mums) are not just the support animal for everyone else.
My DC are all adults now and we'd all go out of our way, above and beyond, for each other so I believe its worked well for us as a family.

Why aren’t you teaching your 13 year old what to do in an emergency?

Does he know how to dial 999? Did he know which cinema you were at? Does he have relatives numbers? Does he know not to answer the door?

Come on …. Teach him the basics.

Did Santa leave coal in their stockings too?

Love for your child should not be conditional especially not when they are children. A 16 year cannot have had many opportunities in life to be disowned for narcissism ffs.

I mean I know there could rarely be big issues like if say your child grows up to rape and murder kids etc... but to withdraw acts of love over stuff like not putting the bins out? ridiculous.

No, it's not really like that. For one thing I did those things because they were good kids, not as leverage to make them be.

Fair enough. Maybe it was just the way it was worded, but it seemed a bit like you were saying "I chose to do x and y for them, so therefore I expect them to do z in return".

But generally it's more a lesson in consequences. If DC had been unhelpful selfish people who did nothing for any other family member, then they shouldn't expect other people to go out of their way for them.

If a child is generally selfish and unhelpful then I think there are issues that go way beyond them refusing to babysit occasionally.

But in terms of "going out of your way" - isn't that what you sign up for when you become a parent? To do what you can to support your kids and put their needs before your own? I don't think you can expect children to feel the same level of responsibility towards you as you have towards them. It's a totally different dynamic.

I'm not sure what you mean? I made no reference to punishment or withdrawal of love, narcissism murders or bins. I really don't understand your point?

I don’t know why you thought you and your husband had the right to go out on a Saturday night op!! Your parents, it’s not what parents do!!

🙄

@champagnetruffleshuffle

i actually think you need to go out more op , so that your son has the opportunity to build more resilience and independence

Absolutely. It's not an equal give and take, of course not. But I see so many threads on here of parents who've turned themselves into a cross between a servant and emotional punch bag for teens who show no appreciation or reciprocality. The parent is deeply resentful and the child has no respect for them and is ill equipped for a wider world that expects more from them.
I dont see any harm in as do as you would be done to stance fostered in an age and role appropriate way.

I agree with your latest update @champagnetruffleshuffle shuffle (and @TheChristmasPig earlier) and your assessment of the situation and fwiw I think you are completely on track.

Besides, teenagers need to be accountable. She absolutely needs to know that this was not on - even if she feels completely justified. I think this is a battle that is worth picking with her.

This is not about your 13 year old and whether he does or doesn't need a babysitter.

And yes, prearranged nights out, fine, but leaving the house at 9.45pm randomly - not so fine. Who is she meeting that is also allowed to do this?

I dont see any harm in as do as you would be done to stance fostered in an age and role appropriate way.

No, me neither, but I do think there are some things that are just part of parenthood and they shouldn't be used to put you in a position of power over your child.

I just don't like the whole angle of "I do this for you so it's only fair that you do Y" that seems to be quite prevalent on here. Children and parents aren't on an equal level so you can't act as though they are.

All this ‘team’ talk is rubbish. Children don’t have a choice to a) join this ‘team’ or not and b) decide which ‘team’ they want to join. They are brought into a family that the parents want. It is a fundamentally selfish decision to have children (there’s nothing wrong with it obviously, but it is done to satisfy the parents wants and needs and has nothing to do with the child). You create the ‘team’, you take on the responsibilities of running it. You don’t foist the job onto a member you forced into it in the first place.

It’s the parents job to raise the child into a self sufficient adult. That could mean helping them learn how to run a house, social skills, life skills etc. and that can be done by encouraging them to learn / do chores. It doesn’t mean they should be expected to be a stand in carer at short notice when the parent wants the night off.

He's 13. If he can't cope with 1-2hrs on his own at home then that needs looking at

Your dd isn't your your youngest child babysitter

Dd didn't go out till late knowing you were back maybe an hour or so after

Worst of all tho is the fact you turn your phone off when go out and kids at home alone

Why would any parent do that

Put it on silent but not turned off /data

So can see if anyone wanted you

I was babysitting two toddlers when I was 13 but this is Gen X times in about 1980.

Some kids are idiots and it’s not great leaving them alone as are some adults.

it wasn’t long and I think yabu.

Realistically, would she have kept him company or would she be in her room ignoring him? She is not responsible for him, it’s your choice to do above and beyond for her, she doesn’t owe you back.

“our family is a team”

I have four children, 23 down to 12. I have never expected the older ones to care for the younger. Dh & I have sole responsibility for organising suitable childcare. My eldest has often been in the position where she has babysat her siblings but this has only ever been by prior mutual agreement, at her suggestion or, once, in an absolute emergency.

I view it as completely different to members of a household pitching in to complete household chores. It is unreasonable to expect older siblings to have a degree of responsibility or expectation that the youngest ones will never have.

It is unreasonable to expect older siblings to have a degree of responsibility or expectation that the youngest ones will never have.

This is actually a really valid point. You're putting more responsibility on the oldest just because they happen to have been born first. What will the equivalent be for the 13yo once they reach that age?

I don't think you were unreasonable OP to have expected her to stay but I think you will have learnt from this.

You need to be more explicit in your expectations with your 16 year old.

We are a team here too and it is not unreasonable to expect your children to take one for the team when asked.

It is so easy to see how some teens morph into really selfish adults if so many parents believe they should only ever be catered for and accommodations are only to be a one way street.

That to expect your children to help out makes the parent child relationship "transactional".

OP, spell out your expectations to your daughter.

I would not be impressed with what she did.

She is obviously aware you rarely go out and yet could not defer going out to stay with her brother.

It definitely warrants a conversation about consideration of others.

If she didn't know there was an element of responsibility being placed on her when you went out, why did she text you?

As an aside I think she is young to be upping and leaving at 9.45 on a Saturday night to head off to the next town.

Still laughing at the OP thinking she does more for her DD than any other decent parent might and that being her justification for how she’s treated her.

OP - you’ve made her a mini mum and you’re annoyed she won’t conform to the role. Just admit you’re wrong, pay a babysitter for your mollycoddled son and get over yourself.

I think you're expecting too much of your 16 year old. You're the parent and it's not tit for tat.

I think it's a case of miscommunication.

You told her you didn't want DS on his own all evening so she stayed in with him most of the evening and then left him for just over an hour. She probably thinks she did exactly as you asked, and assumed if you'd meant 'I don't want DS left alone at all' you would have said that instead.

You're saying you don't expect her to look after DS but she told you she had plans and you basically told her to cancel them last minute to look after her little brother, that's a bit shit. Did she actually say 'Oh okay, I won't go out then,' or just 'Oh, okay I won't meet up with those friends (in the diffferent town).'

What will the equivalent be for the 13yo once they reach that age?

At a guess, nothing, because they will be a "young" 16 and can't possibly have the same level of expectation

I would hazard a guess that this isn't even just an oldest/youngest thing but also a boy/girl thing with the expectation that the girl will give up her plans to keep her brother company because she's supposed to want to be nurturing and caring etc, where as its okay for the boy to be "young" for his age and less mature and with less/no expectations of having a nurturing role