To have expected dd to stay home?

[champagnetruffleshuffle]

No one in the family had plans this evening so DH and I decided to have a very rare evening out to the local cinema, leaving dd16 and ds13 at home. Dd16 came downstairs at dinner time saying she wants to go out to a neighbouring town and asked for a lift. We told her our plans and that the film didn't finish until 10.40 pm and we didn't want ds left on his own at home all evening.

We arrive home from the cinema to find ds on his own, dd had gone out at 9.45 pm to meet a local friend. She'd snap chatted me telling me whilst we were watching the film with our phones turned off. I turned my phone on when the film finished but my data was still off.

Ds is alright with being at home alone, but dh and I weren't happy as we'd be back quite late and weren't easily contactable.

I'm so cross with her right now. I know he was pretty safe but we made it clear we didn't want him left. AIBU? And wwyd?

YABU - 13 is old enough to be home alone, you can't exorcist 16yo to stay in on a Saturday night
YANBU - She went against our wishes and I'm right to be cross.

It's not your DD responsibility to look after your son, get a babysitter

If she went out at 9.45, your ds was on his own for less than 2 hours. I'd expect a normal 13yo to cope perfectly well with that.

I think you should have made your expectations clearer. If you wanted your dd to stay in you should have explicitly asked her to do so and come to an agreement that way. Sounds more like a miscommunication. The fact you provide lifts etc is irrelevant.

What does ‘keeping her brother company’ actually mean? Did he even want her company? I wouldn’t have wanted my older sibling’s (brother) company at that age tbh. I would have preferred to just get on with my own stuff, as would he.

Your the parent, this is on you and you only.

I see where you are coming from, OP. It's more relaxing for you when you are out to think that your kids are keeping each other company rather than your youngest being on his own. And it would have been really nice if your DD had wanted to spend that time with her brother. Plus you do let her go out a lot and help her get places. It's disappointing - I get it.

I'd expect my 16 year old to contact me if she was leaving the house/going somewhere at night but it seemed she did.

I'd probably be ok if my 13 year old was on his own for a bit - as long as he was ok with it too.

Don't turn your phones off - put them on silent.

Also tell your dd (and ds) that if they are changing plans - especially plans at night - they they must text/whatsapp/snapchat/whatever and wait for a response from you.

So, are you still very cross OP? Or has this helped at all?

That's why I'm annoyed I think, the change of expectations. Yes we were rather last minute in our plans but when we left she was staying in and was fine with that.

YABU. You decided that DD was babysitting without even asking her if that was ok. Of course she gets to go out more than you and your DH, she doesn’t have children.

Your DS is not her responsibility, he’s yours. If you want her to babysit (even if that’s just being in the house in case of emergencies), organise it properly.

This has helped to get a bit of perspective, thank you.

Bollocks to those. I would expect a 16 year old to take responsibility in family life. I would expect her to sacrifice her evening out occasionally so I can have a rare evening out. Her life should not revolve around her own wants to the exclusion of every one else's. She is part of a team and at 16, she should be pulling (some of) her own weight. So when she is asked to step up and take some responsibility she should do it. No one who lives in a group gets a free ride.

Ds may be ops responsibility, but I’m sure her DD gets lots of things she doesn’t have to have like money for going out and a phone. If it was all the time I would understand. I would absolutely talk to DD about it not being ok.

My point about us not going out much wasn't a sulk, it was to indicate that we rarely, if ever, expect this of her. I gladly facilitate her social life when she needs me to and I feel let down by her.

I will chat to her about it tomorrow, and more calmly thanks to some mumsnet balance.

I kind of agree with this.

Before doing that, I would talk with your son. Did he want his sister there with him or was he happy to be alone? If the latter, then I think you need to reassess not leaving him alone. What do you mean by him being a “young” 13? If he genuinely seems to struggle with developmentally normal things like looking after himself and keeping himself safe then you probably do need someone with him. If he’s just a bit immature then you’re probably overreacting and should start letting him be on his own.

Are the two of them close? If they are, when you talk with her you could try asking her what she thinks. Say that you are worried about leaving him alone because of x or y, then invite her to share her thoughts. “Do you think he’s ready/would be capable of x/ would get anxious?” At 16 she may have insight or perspectives that you haven’t considered. But regardless she will feel as if she has input in the situation and will likely be more amenable to staying with him in the future if you consider her views as well.

If you’re wanting to go out and would like her to baby sit best ask her if she’s free and able to babysit. It’s presumptuous to expect her to drop everything without even 48 hours warning.

secondly leaning a 13 year old alone for an hour or two is perfectly fine.

She did as you asked and didn’t leave home loans all night- perhaps it was a communication break down?
tbh I probably wouldn’t leave a 13 year old alone at that time of night. However I pay for sibling babysitting as changing your plans and not being allowed out isn’t ’keeping him company’, it’s babysitting! You could have also gone to the cinema earlier??

12 year old are old enough to babysit

So I'm sure a 13 year old is perfectly capable of being at home alone without ruining his 16 year old DSis social life completely unnecessarily

I also find it a bit odd that your 13 year old can’t be left but you’re happy for a 16 year old to be out in the neighbouring town on a Saturday evening and making her way out alone at 9.45. How did she get home?

It's not her job to look after her 13 year old brother anyway

That's your job OP

since when are 12 year olds old enough to babysit?!

Bollocks to those. I would expect a 16 year old to take responsibility in family life. I would expect her to sacrifice her evening out occasionally so I can have a rare evening out. Her life should not revolve around her own wants to the exclusion of every one else's. She is part of a team and at 16, she should be pulling (some of) her own weight. So when she is asked to step up and take some responsibility she should do it. No one who lives in a group gets a free ride.

I agree with this too.

Also, a 16-year-old going out coming up to midnight on a Friday night?
To a friend's house, o.k. is it a sleepover?

To be wandering the streets with weirdo creeps about, absolutely not.

I think the onus is clearly on you and your DH, rather than your DD, to stay with your DS if you don't want him left alone at night. So when your DD said she wanted to go out, you should have made a decision as to whether you would cancel going out yourself or leave DS alone. If you specifically want your DD to stay with your DS, I think you need to ask her in advance, sorry, rather than expecting her to cancel her own plans - she's not the parent! She's the one who should be able to make plans spontaneously not you and your DH. You need to check in advance.

But YANBU to expect your DD, once left behind, to stay with your DS until you returned, since you had made it clear you weren't comfortable with him being left on his own and she presumably knows her brother and that he's not perhaps ready for this.

I don't think it's wrong to expect her to step up a bit more, but I think she deserves to be asked in good time so she doesn't have to cancel her own plans.