DS hurt another child, so humiliated

[ToddlerIs2]

So there's a boy that annoys DS. Seems to revel in winding DS up just to before the point where he's actively naughty. Not an excuse, just context.

Today the child, C, did something annoying but not something that harmed DS - screwed up some paper on the table. DS thought he was going to throw it at him so DS pushed down on C's hand to make him drop the paper, hurting C.

Happened right at the end of school so DS was told off and sent to another classroom for the last half hour but no time to discuss punishment with SLT.

I just feel so humiliated that school will think he's a violent child who witnessed violence in the home and it just acting out his upbringing. This isn't the case.

I've told him he's looking at an internal exclusion (for deliberately putting hands on C to hurt him) and once I can talk to DH tomorrow a punishment at home. I've told him if this happens again he'll end up excluded permanently and he won't be able to see his friends. He hates the idea of being homeschooled. I've explained that being internally excluded could mean him missing photo day with his brothers in school and a cultural day. No pint grounding him, he doesn't go out without us, even Cubs he goes to with me. He's not allowed to play his game tonight or on YouTube later.

What punishment would you give and how the fuck is this my life and my child? I don't understand where we've gone wrong or how I'm meant to stop this given I don't know where I've messed up as a parent.

I'm so angry with him and me.

OP I completely agree with you. You are taking this seriously as you should

Do the thing school probably won’t have time to do: talk to him in depth about what happened, what he thought as it happened, how it made him feel and what he hoped to gain from pushing the boy’s hand down. Do this without any judgement, and avoid a snippy tone of voice even if you think his reaction was unreasonable or you don’t understand his logic.
When you’ve properly listened to him, get him to think of all the unwanted consequences of being physical - not just the punishments and the consequences on himself, but the consequences on the other boy, how he will remember the incident, how he will feel in school and around your son, etc. There may even be other children who saw this and now think of your son as someone to avoid. Chances are your son will see that the overall end result is not quite what he wanted.
Next, get him to think of all the different things he could have done instead with his anger, and the consequences of each. Make your own suggestions alongside his if you think he’s missed a possibility, but let his suggestions stand too. Work out some of the good and unwanted consequences of those suggestions.
At the end of this, your son may not react with perfect zen tranquility and total diplomacy to every annoying thing that happens, but he will have thought properly about consequences and options, and he’ll be on the way to owning his reactions.
Punishment for things like this just makes kids push their negative emotions down and think they’re bad for having them in the first place. Then next time they’re physical with someone they hide it and lie about it better, or argue harder that the other person deserved it.

@ToddlerIs2

You sound like me!

DD pushed someone once in Reception and I completely overreacted, curled up under the bedcovers crying, and thought I could never face walking into school again.

However, DD never pushed again - and I think - even if the reaction was out of proportion - it’s better than not reacting and brushing it off.

You’re reacting because you are a good, caring Mum - this will hopefully prevent future reoccurrence.

Stop being self pitying OP its not going to help

We did talk calmly, I didn't stand scraping in his face about it.
He will say he knows it isn't, he lost control. It happened accidentally and he won't do it again. We have had these conversations at home

I've told him he's looking at an internal exclusion […] I've told him if this happens again he'll end up excluded permanently and he won't be able to see his friends. […] I've explained that being internally excluded could mean him missing photo day with his brothers

Genuinely, can you see how massively OTT this is? Why are you threatening him with several things that will really upset him over a minor incident that obviously came off the back of some unpleasant history with this boy? 🥴

I’m shocked by your dramatic response. My DS would get a good talking to at home and then it’d be down to the school what they felt was an appropriate punishment.

No, we don't even quarrel really let alone anyone putting hands on each other.

But all the other kid kid was scrunch up paper. There was zero evidence he was going to throw it. He didn't lift his hand. He didn't say he was going to. He's not thrown paper at DS previously.

Why does internal exclusion mean short days? He is entitled by law to full time education. If the school expects you to collect him before the end of the school day, refuse.

I'm trying to be honest, not asking everyone to pay me on the head and make me feel better.

Ah get a grip you’re catastrophising and anxious.

C needs to stop tormenting other children to provoke a reaction. The school needs to stop him,

DS doesn’t need another punishment from you for this. Watch his behaviour at home and make sure you’re really rewarding good behaviour and put in firm boundaries when he’s physical with his brothers. You’re probably doing all that anyway. You’re fine.

Oh OP, behave. You are NOT a shit mum at all. The fact you are questioning how to deal with this issue shows you aren't.
The school know these two kids have issues with each other. This isn't uncommon at all. They shouldn't be seated near each other for a start and that's the schools problem (I think they sound shit and would be looking at alternatives personally). If he had lashed out unprovoked I'd have a different opinion on the response and punishment for this but he was clearly worried he was about to be hurt or humiliated so pushed hands away. My son once punched a kid who had been relentlessly bullying him for weeks at primary school. DS had tried telling teachers, moving away. The kid was kicking him in the back on the carpet and DS just had enough and turned round and walloped him. Did I tell him off? Did I heck. I didn't praise him but I'm not telling him off for defending himself. He wasn't punished by the school and he has never ever hit anyone or had a harsh word since and he's now 16.

Op I’d speak to the school and ask for your son and this other child to sit separately. The school can do what they can to keep them apart but as you say, your son needs to speak to the teacher when he’s being annoyed.

I think you need to sit your son down and firmly say you’ve had enough with the physical hurting of others and that it needs to stop. Ask him what he feels when he hurts others. Is he doing it intentionally or is it okay fighting that’s gone too far?

ai think you need to calm down on the punishment, yes when something happens then there should be consequences but you need to chat to him to find out what’s causing it and how he feels when it’s happening. Being overly firm with him might just push him in the opposite direction.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the school punishment just now, I think you’re spiralling and need to take some time to cool off yourself. Give your son Some space and try just drop the school thing for now as constantly worrying about the worst will stress you both out and he will behave based on your stress levels.

He gets plenty of 121 time with me +scouts, cinema, theatre) plus time once they're in bed and bedtime with Daddy
He has his own room that has an outside lock so he can lock it against them but obv can't lock himself inside. He's happy enough to go up and do crafts etc alone.

"The youth of today"?? I'm no spring chicken, but you sound like my late great-grandmother. You do realise that people have been moaning about "the youth of today" allegedly not showing respect since Roman times, and probably earlier? Yet somehow civilisation has survived and developed.

He’s 8 - he needs support to work through his emotions and to know someone will be on his side even if he’s made a poor choice in the moment. I agree with everything @Chocolatepeanutbuttercupsandicecream has said. I’d be asking the school what they’re going to do to prevent this becoming a regular occurrence.

@Notwhatyouwanttohear what sort of consequences do you recommend for the actions of an 8 year old who is being bullied then?

Being banned from the game on top of whatever the school is going to do is perfectly proportional. Any more would be serious overkill and would simply breed resentment.

Massive, massive overreaction on your part, OP. I feel sorry for your son if you are giving him all these worst case scenarios. Give your son a hug and tell him not to do it again, for goodness sake.

He's had a one day ban on his favourite game, he's not been locked in the coal hole. I don't know if that's enough because he doesn't seem to learn when I tell him off from being handsy with his brothers, he doesn't seem to learn when I tell him off about constantly touching other people, he doesn't seem to learn when he's on trouble in class for not concentrating. He just doesn't seem to change his behaviour for anything.

Ok so he's not learning. So he c,early needs a different approach and guidance. Keeping on punishing a kid who yet can't express his emotions correctly isn't going to help him. It'll only make him worse.

Have a look at zones of regulation.

It's hardly a knife attack is it. My 5 year old daughter once hit a boy round the head with a brick at school because he'd annoyed her. The head teacher told us we told her not to do it again it was unacceptable. She listened and never did it again. Her and the lad remain great friends 35 years later.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill honestly.

Fine, so leave it there. You don't have to keep going on and on about this. It's a minor incident for which the other child bears at least some responsibility.

OP, you sound like a great mum, just very worried. Ignore the unsympathetic mob screaming that you are overeacting and anxious. You are allowed to healthily process any range of emotions over your children.

I sense you want to nip it in the bud, because you don't want his bad behaviour to escalate.

I don't know what the punishment is in your school, but it is good for your DS to know you do not condone bad behaviour.

I'd ignore everyone saying fight for your son not to be punished- go along with reasonable sanction from the school.

Reward his good behaviour, talk to him about hitting his brothers.

You will all be ok xx

It’s difficult because whilst you don’t want him to be awful to others, he also has to present to others that he can stand up for himself if necessary. If you come down too hard on him, the result could be him letting others push him and be rough with him physically, too afraid to push back because he’s afraid of repercussions at home, and you telling him he should just suck things up.

There was zero evidence he was going to throw it. He didn't lift his hand.

Yeah I bet he didn’t. Clever some of these little fuckers wind up merchants.