DS hurt another child, so humiliated

[ToddlerIs2]

So there's a boy that annoys DS. Seems to revel in winding DS up just to before the point where he's actively naughty. Not an excuse, just context.

Today the child, C, did something annoying but not something that harmed DS - screwed up some paper on the table. DS thought he was going to throw it at him so DS pushed down on C's hand to make him drop the paper, hurting C.

Happened right at the end of school so DS was told off and sent to another classroom for the last half hour but no time to discuss punishment with SLT.

I just feel so humiliated that school will think he's a violent child who witnessed violence in the home and it just acting out his upbringing. This isn't the case.

I've told him he's looking at an internal exclusion (for deliberately putting hands on C to hurt him) and once I can talk to DH tomorrow a punishment at home. I've told him if this happens again he'll end up excluded permanently and he won't be able to see his friends. He hates the idea of being homeschooled. I've explained that being internally excluded could mean him missing photo day with his brothers in school and a cultural day. No pint grounding him, he doesn't go out without us, even Cubs he goes to with me. He's not allowed to play his game tonight or on YouTube later.

What punishment would you give and how the fuck is this my life and my child? I don't understand where we've gone wrong or how I'm meant to stop this given I don't know where I've messed up as a parent.

I'm so angry with him and me.

you are well on the way of creating a very anxious child op. He hasn’t done anything terribly bad or unusual for his age. He is already getting punished for it at school where the incident happened, don’t keep punishing him at home. He needs someone who will listen to him. He is being targeted at school and all you are concerned about is looking humiliated. Get your priorities right and you will have a happier and healthier son.

He's had a one day ban on his favourite game, he's not been locked in the coal hole. I don't know if that's enough because he doesn't seem to learn when I tell him off from being handsy with his brothers, he doesn't seem to learn when I tell him off about constantly touching other people, he doesn't seem to learn when he's on trouble in class for not concentrating. He just doesn't seem to change his behaviour for anything.

Please don't scare him. He's been assaulted and then over reacted when he thought someone else was about to throw something at him. A boy who went to school with my son was scared about his parents reaction to something that was silly, the other parents whose kids were involved (including mine) rolled our eyes and told them to behave. He ran away and was missing for over 24 hrs which was a million times more serious than anything that went on at school.

I know you are disappointed and worried but try to keep it in proportion.

OP, take a very hard line at home.

He should not be touching his brothers.

He needs help to learn to regulate his temper.

Ask the teacher for them to be kept a part as they don't get on.

If he is getting away with it at home then he will do it in school.

He is 8 and his brothers are 3?

I would sit down and tell him firmly that he will be in huge trouble if he lays hands again on his brothers, and I would really mean it.

Nip it in the bud.
He's too big to be bullying 3 year olds.

Don't conflate the two issues.

Sort him out at home and deal with school separately.

At 8 he should not be hurting his brothers.

I didn't say he'd get permanently excluded for this just if he continued to hurt people. I think he will get an internal exclusion because he deliberately laid hands on another child. We did talk, and have previously talked about how to manage with this child, he doesn't listen or isn't capable of applying it in the moment.

I was just reading an article earlier about how this type of behaviour - pushing and needling someone until they explode and react - is actually a form of bullying or abuse. The aim of the provocation is to get the victim in trouble.. in C’s case it would seem successfully. I wouldn’t punish my child at home, but I would help them to develop coping strategies for if the issue happens again, as unfortunately schools aren’t great at dealing with this issue, and it is often the wrong child taking the brunt of the blame.

He thought he was going to get something thrown at him so he defended himself. Doesn't sound like he deliberately hurt the boy.

Also the fact you are making this about you is so wrong. I'M humiliated, MY child, MY life.

This should be a post about helping your son deal with bullying. Not about you!

He's been alive for EIGHT years op. He's a little boy still learning and making mistakes. No, he shouldn't be hurting people but pushing someone's hands down because he thinks he is going to be hurt/humiliated is entirely different from lashing out and punching someone in the face. He's had (in my opinion) a harsh punishment already for what he has done. You don't need to carry it on for days on end. You've spoken to him, he's had punishment at school, he's not watching YouTube tonight. He doesn't need multiple harsh lectures on exclusions and home schooling from his mum and then his dad when he gets home. Let it go now. Have a quiet chat with him later and make sure he understands what to do when he gets cross or feels upset.

Year 4, he's 8. He's likely to be internally excluded for putting his hands on another child which means short days so he's going to be stuck in the bike rack with me for an hour each day waiting for his brothers to finish!!

I tell him off about constantly touching other people, he doesn't seem to learn when he's on trouble in class for not concentrating.

@ToddlerIs2

Someone may as well say it - is he being assessed for ADHD? Because you’ve just given two big flags here. But pushing someone who’s been winding him up isn’t a red flag, that’s just a kid who’s had enough.

So you think this lashing out is an indication of deeper psychological damage?

School don't see it is bullying because it's just low level annoyance. But DS has zero tolerance for him.

At which point you tell the school you won’t accept your child being so severely punished for being fed up of his ‘bully’, and you would hate to have to take it further but will if they insist on exclusion from
the classroom.

Also.. re the younger brothers.. he absolutely should be keeping his hands to himself, BUT does he have space away from them, a safe place to keep his things where they can’t touch or break them, and one on one time with you and his dad?

C sounds like an annoying little tw@t that got what was coming to him. Hopefully he’ll learn to leave him alone in future.
Id be more concerned that the school allow this low level bullying but punish so severely those that react as a one off.

I just feel like I'm failing everyone and now it's spilt over into school.

He's been told by me constantly speak up, shout out to the teacher, put your hand up, tell him to stop talking to you, ignore him. None of it sinks in. I wanted him to worry about what happened todau so he won't keep doing it.

He's got such a shit Mom, it's no wonder he's struggling.

How exactly was this other child hurt? It can't have been badly

If your son was mine then I'd be fighting against any type of exclusion just for defending himself! All you're going to do by scaring him with threats of permanent exclusion is raise him to let others push him around through fear of being punished for it. So next time this other child does something you're happy for yours to just sit there and take it?

Well done op.

There's a reason why most of the youth of today have no respect and a lot of it is shown in this thread.

Some of the posters on here would have you bake him a cake and tell him everything will be okay.

Actions need consequences like the real world.

By all means make sure he does whatever sanction the school imposes. But he doesn’t need another punishment at home for what he has done. You need to let him understand that you don’t approve of him hurting other children, even under provocation partly because it is more likely to escalate the situation. You also need to teach him strategies on how to deal with the other child, and most importantly make the school aware that he is being targeted by the other child. It doesn’t excuse your child, but it is important that the school is aware of what is going on so they can deal with it.

I agree.

Because I don't feel like I know what's proportional. Hence the post. The banned off his game is the obvious immediate one. But I don't know of ot should be more.

Because I'm a shit Mom and many on here will attest to the fact I'm fucking him up?

He pushed another child's hand away that's got previous for annoying him.

Your kid defended himself. Celebrate that.

Internal exclusion for pushing another child's hand down?
Leaping to talk of permanent exclusion and home schooling?

It's unbelievable you even got told about such a minor incident. It feels like a complete non event to me.

Is there something else going on at school?

Internal exclusion areas in a school need to be staffed. If pushing a hand down meets the threshold, the room must be mobbed.

I just feel so humiliated that school will think he's a violent child who witnessed violence in the home and it just acting out his upbringing. This isn't the case.

Assuming this is a one off, why on earth would the school jump to these conclusions from this one rather minor incident?

They're all so physical, I don't know how to stop it. I don't mean I don't try, I just mean the twins end up rolling around the floor and pushing each other anyway, doing the same to DS and he responds.

theyd be better off without such a shit Mom but I seemingly can't change that as I'm clearly failing to do better

@ToddlerIs2 you over react a lot going by these posts. Id focus on that.