DS hurt another child, so humiliated

[ToddlerIs2]

So there's a boy that annoys DS. Seems to revel in winding DS up just to before the point where he's actively naughty. Not an excuse, just context.

Today the child, C, did something annoying but not something that harmed DS - screwed up some paper on the table. DS thought he was going to throw it at him so DS pushed down on C's hand to make him drop the paper, hurting C.

Happened right at the end of school so DS was told off and sent to another classroom for the last half hour but no time to discuss punishment with SLT.

I just feel so humiliated that school will think he's a violent child who witnessed violence in the home and it just acting out his upbringing. This isn't the case.

I've told him he's looking at an internal exclusion (for deliberately putting hands on C to hurt him) and once I can talk to DH tomorrow a punishment at home. I've told him if this happens again he'll end up excluded permanently and he won't be able to see his friends. He hates the idea of being homeschooled. I've explained that being internally excluded could mean him missing photo day with his brothers in school and a cultural day. No pint grounding him, he doesn't go out without us, even Cubs he goes to with me. He's not allowed to play his game tonight or on YouTube later.

What punishment would you give and how the fuck is this my life and my child? I don't understand where we've gone wrong or how I'm meant to stop this given I don't know where I've messed up as a parent.

I'm so angry with him and me.

Struggling to believe what I’m reading, how many times did you write you were a shit mum? Are you ok, or is there a back story, as the behaviour you’re accusing your child of, the over reacting etc, is what you yourself are doing, it’s really extreme.

I honestly think if this is typical of your reactions you need to seek some help.

Op I would leave this here for tonight. You’ve had a tough day and this isn’t helping you to relax.

We can all tell you’re a good mum as you want to know how to help your children. Some days just aren’t the best and everything hits at once.

If you’d feel better to talk to the school about your sons behaviour then do it but for tonight try to switch off and have a fresh start tomorrow.

I agree. Stop reading tonight, go to bed and look at it with fresh eyes tomorrow. Hopefully you can see that nobody here is saying you are a shit mum at all, only that you seem to be struggling. Honestly, we ALL struggle at times, it's nothing to be ashamed about at all. You are trying to seek help and advice, if you were a shit parent you wouldn't be doing that at all and you wouldn't be so upset.
I have an autistic son and there have been days (especially early on) when I felt absolutely lost and clueless but you learn and it gets easier. You have three year old twins, I can imagine you are run off your feet and frazzled! Please, don't torture yourself over this trivial hand smacking incident. Things like this happen at schools every single day, nobody is going to think your child is violent or horrible or that he has a terrible life. Take a deep breath and give yourself a break.

Not solidly. They don't like waking up alone despite sharing a room together so shout me if they wake up. It isn't every night but it's somehow worse when it's 3 bad nights and 2 good then 4 bad than when it was just bad.
None of my friends kids behave like this. And even of they do on the odd occasion, there's one so they just pick them up and move them. I have two hefty ones, I can bary haul one away let alone two.

I think you need to read this back again. The poster left a very kind, well thought out comment based on her own experience. She did suggest treating your dc sensitively and advised against double punishing but the word love was not mentioned at all. Yet you have chosen to see it as an attack. In the same way that other well-meaning advice was met with ‘well I’m obviously a bad mum’.

You’ve come here for support and advice so please start taking it on board. It’s not about you it’s about helping your dc so stop taking it so personally.

Right - every mum of a young child has been here! It all starts caving in at the same time and you just feel like what you are doing is ‘shit’ - one thing sends you spiralling as it’s just a build up of emotions. Mums do so much and are expected to be so many things and to raise the ‘perfect child’ who never ever puts a foot wrong! Which is IMPOSSIBLE by the way!

I have been here as a mum of ONE toddler, so I can’t imagine what it’s like with two.

My advice is be easy on yourself right now! You sound like a mum who cares very deeply. Go get some sleep - recharge - take some time for yourself!

The best thing you can do for your children is sometimes look after yourself! Xxx goodnight

Op I mean this kindly but your responses to things seem disproportionate and quite dramatic at times. Is your son learning this from you? You say you are unsure if your reactions are just and your son seems to have some small issues with responding appropriately.

He assumes that someone scrunching up paper means it will be thrown at him so responds by slamming the persons hand down. You have your child get in some very minor trouble at school and start talking about your son getting excluded and that you are fucking him up.

Anxiety can be a learned behaviour so maybe getting some support with that could help you both.

I think you sound like a lovely but very worried mum.
You have your hands full with 3 kids of the ages they are - would you consider getting some patenting support maybe?

@ToddlerIs2 massive overreaction on your part, and now you are in an anxiety tailspin. Try and get hold of yourself and calm down- you don’t want to pass on the propensity for anxiety and catastrophising to your son.

@ToddlerIs2 you aren’t a shit mum! 8 year olds have limited capacity to control their emotions, full stop. At home, at school, with siblings or with friends. Older kids, younger kids- it doesn’t matter. He needs to learn, yes. But he is being aggravated and provoked (either on purpose by the kid at school or inadvertently by his brothers just being 3) and hasn’t learned YET.

That doesn’t mean he won’t/can’t- he just needs firm but fair boundaries, lots of explanation and love and he will get it as he matures.

If he is battering other kids when he is 11/2, then you will have cause for concern, right now he is a perfectly normal less than perfect 8 year old.

Try and cut yourself and him some slack.

Something similar happened with my, usually easy going, 6 year old grandson. They ended up being sat away from each other in class and the teacher on playground duty had to keep an eye on them. They both, really pointedly, sent Christmas cards to the whole class except each other.

Luckily he's changed school so they'll never have to see each other again.

Wow ...how dramatic are you??

OK, 1. This other child has been consistently winding your son up over a prolonged and constant amount of time. I think that would make anyone fed up and concerned about it potentially ramping up to a physical aspect sooner or later. Your DS reacted to what he felt was going to be the next (fairly logical) step on bullying pathway.

As minor as the wind ups may be, given the duration and consistency of it, I would have considered this to be bullying from another child, and as soon as I learnt they were sat next to each other again, I would have been down that school insisting they were to be separated.

As much as violence cannot be condoned, and alternative paths should be sought, it's easier to sit here as an emotionally mature adult and say that to a child, who is still going through the stages of learning and testing social boundaries.

As for the being rough and easily irritated at his brothers, and I note the mention of ASD and potential ADHD - as soon as I read the first bit, it sounded very much like my DD, who is level 2 ASD & ADHD. She struggles very much with her emotional regulation, and more often than not, will resort to physical means to sort out a challenging situation.

We sit, we talk, we have punishments and we explain and try to find coping mechanisms for her moving forward. There is a lot of repeating, and it is going to take a long time, but, she needs our help more than our punishment. Whenever she is punished, we explain to her that the punishment is a direct consequence of her actions. It is hard, and it hurts me when she hurts another child, because as a mum I would hate for another child to be scared to come to school because of her.

BUT... if said child had been long standing bullying her, and she reached her trigger point and reacted out of fear, I would partly understand. I wouldn't condone it, of course, but I would also be holding the teachers at the school partly responsible too. They hold a duty of care to all of the children there, and if there are pre existing issues with a couple of children, they need to keep an eye out and watch for triggers and signs of negative interactions.

Push through your GP for an ADHD diagnosis and possibly look at a school which is prepared and able to deal with your ASD DS. Perhaps he might thrive better in a smaller environment with better teacher: student ratio & provides more support / regulation centred learning.

Children do things like this all the time. I'm not saying it's okay, but it's normal. They are still learning to navigate their feelings and deal with upsetting situations. As someone who works with children I can assure you that all children do something from time to time t are still growing and learning. The important thing here is how we deal with it. Don't react with anger, that just teaches that anger is a suitable response. He needs kindness and understanding, and also a calm but firm explanation of why that kind of behaviour is not okay. Tell him how you would expect him to respond in this situation, give him the tools to deal with similar incidents in a better way in the future.

I don’t know how old your child is, but impulse control doesn’t even kick in until around aged 7. It sounds as though your son felt threatened by this child and his response sounds proportionate. With all due respect, yours does not. It sounds like you’re putting the fear of God into him over an issue that you could just as easily be containing and comforting him over. To learn and enact true empathy, children need to receive it. There is no need to double down on the punishment already exerted by school. He needs your support not your censure. Perhaps question what this experience is triggering in you, because at the moment, you are not doing yourself or your son any favours.

It sounds like a huge over reaction but maybe you're worried because you've seen much more at home that you don't like.

Please don't punish him or have a neurotic meltdown anymore on him. I have done this in the past myself. It's catastrophising.

Just talk it through with him. Find out what drives his reactions in general at home or with anyone and talk through a plan to manage it better next time. He's old enough to understand this and problem solve with you.

As for the school, your son will be the least of their worries seriously! It's nothing in the grand scheme of ' problem behaviour '.

Sorry OP - didn't read all the posts ref being Autistic. I feel so much for these kids. It is so hard when you look at the school system, how rigid it is, the requirements not to move, speak, talk back. Bring Autistic also is a nightmare for most kids in school. Give him some more slack and just talk it all through with him. My son is Autistic, like you, I can become really oversensitive and a bit paranoid ref how they're perceived.

As for your youngest and what the nursery teacher said. Seriously, if that's her biggest concern she needs to get a life. These kids are so young and the crap they have to endure in our ridiculous school system is a joke

Honestly it sounds like your son is the one being bullied and that he's had enough.... He was pushed over, a boy scrunches up his paper.... Rather than losing your shit with him I'd be trying to calmly find out if anything else is going on and would be having a conversation with the school to find out if they think he's being picked on?

Did the school say anything else today? It could have been that your son thought the other child was going to throw something at him so he reacted without thinking, which is understandable especially as your child had been hurt before at school.

It's so hard being a parent 😭 you don't want your child to be bullied and want them to stick up for themselves but on the other hand you don't want them to become a bully or lash out. I'm not sure how I'll cope when my daughter is older.

Has anyone told your child " hit them back" after the first incident? Perhaps a Grandparent? If sounds like something has happened recently to make him start acting like this. You need to nip it in the bud , but also get to the bottom of why it has started happening.

Hang on , have you got this out of proportion or what? Chill back off and let this take its course. Talk to, reason with, listen to your child. Should it happen again ask for a quick word with teacher or they may have one with you. Really SLT involvement?? Stop being so ott anxious. Take care

I read this yesterday and tried not to reply. But drawn again today. I have twins. I remembers days like you describe - the constant arguments, feeling like a crappie parent. Worse than that - comparing me to perfect parents. My whole time was me telling me how crap I am. I don't have 3 boys - I hear fighting is worse with boys.

Your school sounds suitable. Your boys autism diagnosis needs looking into. And more than all of this, you need to start to see the good things you do. Having twins is bloody hard. You cannot compare singleton parenting to you. You have no idea what it's like behind closed doors.

Please, can I ask you to look at how well you are doing. Look at little things but know how big they are. You are teaching them accountability. You are reinforcing boundaries. Time and time again. You feed them. You love them. Look at how you can feel better. Lone shopping evenings, leave children with your partner. Pamper days? A hobby you enjoy? Take a little back for you. That oxygen mask has to go on you first!

Can I ask you to consider how you want to support your son? Then look to take a little control back. For example if school punish him and you think it's unfair - appeal it. Escalate it. Write to ousted etc. If it's the wrong school, look for another? Ask for the school/sen area to assess how your sons autism affects him and what they can do to support him.

Twins - it's a huge huge area that's undervalued and not recognised. You carry around 2 babies, it is a drain on you and your body. The first year us so intense. All those plates spinning. Feeding, cleaning, caring, school runs, no sleep. It's endless! I split mine at 4. They started to sleep better. Didn't want to be split but when they were they started to like their own space. They were together 24/7 and were replicas of each other. They terrorised me! I should of split them up sooner. One slept early up early. The other wasn't like that. So little sleep.
I used homestart, they supported me 1 afternoon a week so I could give 1 child my full attention. That was so helpful. We have sure start locally but maybe other support for you locally?

You sound like you have no self esteem. Can you talk to someone? There's free cbt help online (called get free cbt online). There's free counselling too. There's a site called hubofhope.com that tells you all support locally (you just put your postcode in). You are not crap. You are human. Be strong, it will be OK.

@Mumofthreeteenagers I think that is the kindest, most empathic and practical post I've ever read on mumsnet. You sound absolutely lovely

Don’t worry. Your child is normal, and the school is used to dealing with incidents like this.
when DS was in Reception he got a half day exclusion for holding a Y2 boy against a wall by his neck. Not his finest hour but 9 years later DS is a kind child who has not had any issues since!

Christ.
Why would you tell him he will be suspended? I’m sorry but that’s just awful, you’ve scared him for no reason.
So he put his hand down on the other boys, he didn’t launch at him or cause any sort of injury.
you’re over reacting.