DS hurt another child, so humiliated

[ToddlerIs2]

So there's a boy that annoys DS. Seems to revel in winding DS up just to before the point where he's actively naughty. Not an excuse, just context.

Today the child, C, did something annoying but not something that harmed DS - screwed up some paper on the table. DS thought he was going to throw it at him so DS pushed down on C's hand to make him drop the paper, hurting C.

Happened right at the end of school so DS was told off and sent to another classroom for the last half hour but no time to discuss punishment with SLT.

I just feel so humiliated that school will think he's a violent child who witnessed violence in the home and it just acting out his upbringing. This isn't the case.

I've told him he's looking at an internal exclusion (for deliberately putting hands on C to hurt him) and once I can talk to DH tomorrow a punishment at home. I've told him if this happens again he'll end up excluded permanently and he won't be able to see his friends. He hates the idea of being homeschooled. I've explained that being internally excluded could mean him missing photo day with his brothers in school and a cultural day. No pint grounding him, he doesn't go out without us, even Cubs he goes to with me. He's not allowed to play his game tonight or on YouTube later.

What punishment would you give and how the fuck is this my life and my child? I don't understand where we've gone wrong or how I'm meant to stop this given I don't know where I've messed up as a parent.

I'm so angry with him and me.

@ToddlerIs2 you're spiralling - calm down, this isn't the end of the world and it doesn't mean you're a bad mum.

Your son has done something that hundreds of other children will have done this term. It's not extreme violence, it's not bullying. The school will have a behaviour policy, they'll assess what's happened and implement a (hopefully proportionate) consequence. A firm talking to and a short electronics restriction sounds plenty to show that behaviour at school has consequences at home, if that's your usual approach. This isn't worth going nuclear over.

It sounds like your self-esteem and anxiety might be bigger issues though, you sound like you're feeling in quite a vulnerable frame of mind just now. Do you have anyone you could talk to in real life about how you're feeling? They might help you get more perspective on things.

I think people are just picking up on this “I've told him if this happens again he'll end up excluded permanently and he won't be able to see his friends.”

The difference is age.
DTwin pulled a toy off someone else. He got told off. I got told. End of.
DS os 8, in juniors.

She's reported because she's worried about YOU op, not that you are a danger to your son. Sometimes threads can be more harmful than helpful and you sound very stressed by some of the comments. MN can either move your thread to a more appropriate place or provide advice, or delete if you want or if they feel its a pile on.

You do sound very stressed and upset about this, OP.

Because this is the kind of stuff that is happening that's winding DS up. It isn't bullying as in doing mean things to DS. But then DS gets wound up and it ends up on him expecting C to do something worse so hence assuming he'd throw the paper at him.

I've told him to ignore it. I've told him when C is making baby sounds to just ignore him and not respond. I've told him when C is drawing stupid pictures instead of working to ignore C's attempts to show him. But if he can't ignore him, he needs to tell the teacher because otherwise he comes out of school and comes out that tightly wound he screams at me until he cries.

But another child pushed him over two weeks ago and split his lip open.

C might not be physically bullying your son but his behaviour is unkind and antagonistic, and if your DS is already being picked on by another child, it's not really surprising that he snapped.

He's eight. He doesn't have the willpower of an older child or an adult.

I think more than parenting classes so you can help him deal with his emotions the much bigger issue is you dealing with yours. You've gone from "he tried to squash someone else's hand" to "they'll exclude him and think he's from a violent home" and also "I perhaps went overboard in this instance" to "I'm a shit Mum and he's doomed forever".

I'd say the priority is getting you to start being more realistic with your reactions instead of catastrophising and turning everything up to 100%. CBT is excellent for this kind of thing. You can do it online, with a book (CBT for dummies is great) in person or with an app.

Your Son is 8. He's a child and he's going to mess up. He can't be expected to react perfectly to every difficult situation he's in. You're an adult and you've got to whatever age you are still reacting to stressors by your emotions going up and up and up. You need to learn to calm down, be rational and BREATHE. Please look at doing some CBT - it's really coming across like you'd benefit from it.

It sounds like your DS is being bullied and stood up for himself for the first time.

I don’t think violence should be tolerated- but what he did doesn’t seem violent or more importantly, unprovoked.

If it was my child I’d be explaining to the school that he is being bullied and this is why he had the reaction. The reaction wasn’t right, but understandable given the circumstances.

If this child was about to throw something at your child that is also not right and the school and his parents should know.

It’s really difficult as I genuinely think this is such a grey area. We don’t want our kids to resort to hitting or being physical, but at the same time if they never take a stand, then how will they ever be able to stick up for themselves.

I do think you have gone way to hard on your child. Sounds like he has been tormented and had enough.

He's ok with the lad who did it. It's grey area whether it was intentional or not, the kid has apologised, he's normally really good with DS and has been making an effort to be nice to him. DS wasn't upset about back to school, no anxiety about being around J, lots of attention off staff checking in if he was ok but he was honestly ok.

You are hugely over reacting. He will absolutely not be excluded for this and you need to make it clear to him that you made a mistake. The poor kid.

As someone who works in behaviour at a school we wouldn’t assume any of the things you’ve suggested, but if a child said my mum says I will be excluded and will never see my friends again that would be red flags at dawn.

No one has said you’re a shit mum well no one except you? Do you think perhaps you’re getting yourself very worked up and stressed so you can’t see the wood for the trees.

kid has been tormenting and annoying your child, let school say them on a table together, why do that? Ask for them to be sat separately. Be firm about physical play in your home, my boys can be too overzealous whilst playing and someone ends in tears - I have 4 boys so it’s a no re wrestling play as it ends badly. And firm consistent consequences for physically hurting siblings. I have a child with asd and did triple 3 parenting course, it wasn’t great for him, however it worked well for his brothers, lot of it made sense. I think many areas now use Solihull but you could ask which your area recommends.

I do think you’ve lost perspective somewhat, your child didn’t mean to hurt this child, he was reacting to what he thought child was going to do. Listen to your son, have a plan in place with him, let him know you’re there for him and be rational with school and plan how you will stop something like this happening again, school have a part to play and you at home too to support your child and prevent future issues. you’ve not failed, being a mum is tough - mum of 4 so I know it’s hard but please do ask for support if you need it, it’s tough. Hope things improve for you all

The problem is the kid hadn't even lifted up his hand holding the paper or said anything, Ds just thought he would and this is why it's so hard to say to school it's bullying because it's so vague and indirect.

I will be asking to split them, I will be reiterating my concerns about how they are together but unless he does something directly to DS and DS tell me or school, it's just DS over reacting to an annoying kid.

Your son is doing what you are doing. He’s catastrophising. Other kids are annoying, making baby sounds, pretending to wee, are just the actions of an immature child. But it sounds like he’s going from 0-100 in ten seconds with his emotions. And you seem to be doing so too. If the school have a welfare officer it might be good to have a chat with them about coping mechanisms.

I think it’s a leap to say your DS is being bullied. It could be that C is winding him up simply because your DS reacts, so if your DS didnt react, the winding up might greatly reduce. Obviously winding others up is wrong, but your DS could get a bit of control over that by not overreacting.

How can he learn better self-control? I don’t know. Maybe he will as he grows up, but attempting to teach him alternative coping strategies is sensible. I’d literally practise them too so that they become second nature.

I get why you’re anxious OP. Being a parent is a minefield. You just learn as you go along, and there’s so much pressure on being a perfect parent these days. But I can honestly say your ds hasn’t done anything remotely concerning - just don’t be too hard on yourself and him. Just a little bit of #bekind reminders, but also saying he shouldn’t put up with anything he feels uncomfortable with, just to balance things out to make sure he doesn’t think he can’t speak out if something is upsetting him.

It doesn’t sound at all like her child is being bullied. This child is just annoying. My 8 year old has similar ‘stupid boys’ in her class

It’s honestly not that bad, try not to worry so much about it. Hopefully this other child will think twice before pissing your son off in the future

OP, you said you were trying to access parenting classes for kids with autism. Is DS autistic? Because that puts a whole new perspective on the way he manages interactions at school and with his brothers and also the way you and school manage him.
If he is ND then that is why you feel he is not learning from his mistakes or remembering to tell the teacher plus a whole load of other things. If he is ND then you and the whole family can learn new approaches that will help him in his interactions with others and will stop you feeling a failure too.

Well I have no doubt school will report me if they decide I'm a danger to my boys.

Agree you are way way way over reacting. How on earth have you got from your son pushing a child to permanent exclusion and home schooling?! This is irrational. If that was policy literally no child would be left in school op. All that needs to happen is your son apologise to the child and then the teacher keep them apart if they don’t get on. That’s it. I wouldn’t then punish at home for this. Even That would be too much imo. X

Is there anything else worrying you about your DS’s behaviour? Other than this situation?

As the lead up to what happened and the provocative situation involved with the kid DS hurt makes his reaction alot more understandable to me.

Yes this is much more what it is. And it's the same with the brothers. He takes it very personally.

Your child sounds like a mass murderer in the making.....not.
Don't worry about it. I'd have just told him off it that happened in my Y6 class. It's not a big deal.

To flag was support for you, not your child. I said absolutely nothing of the sort. Please take care of yourself because the way you speak about yourself is concerning.