If you are autistic do people often not answer the question you are asking but give a more generalised answer?

[Hotandsunny]

Just a thought that came to mind. I often find when I ask people questions about something very specific they don't seem to get it and just give you a general answer. I don't know what it is. But I have oftenish been in a situation where people just don't seem to understand what you are asking. So I was wondering if it was an autistic thing.

The example from today was I was doing a school appeal and the school had sent a list of rooms and room sizes as evidence that the school was full. I tried to question the school about what the different rooms were used for, about class sizes and what rooms the 6th form used. All the deputy head could do was repeat that Y7 was full.

I say you haven't answered my question and ask again and get the same reply. A member of the panel says to me I just don't like the reply I'm getting. I don't, because it doesn't answer my question.

This isn't an isolated incident by a long shot.

But it's an official school appeal hearing. Surely they have to follow procedure and answer questions?

I am autistic, and have, many times, asked questions or made statements that turned out not to be appropriate, or were viewed as rude or overstepping the mark.

My interpretation of this situation, which may or may not be correct, and am happy to be set straight by neurotypical people, is this:

They are confident in their expertise with regard to assessing the capacity of their school. They see you asking these questions as an outsider trying to tell them how to do something which they have knowledgeable about and have experience of; they see the questions you're asking as information-gathering in advance of an attack on a system they have already decided works. They did not answer, therefore, because they didn't want to be in a position where they would feel like they had to justify and argue their decision-making regarding their area of expertise to an outsider, who has taken a couple of pieces of information and then decided they can see the whole picture "better" than them. I am not saying I agree with them, but I suspect their thought processes may have been something like this.

So at an official hearing you can just avoid answering any questions by pretending they are all irrelevant. Wow. I didn't do that with the questions I was asked, I answered them all honestly. A couple seemed irrelevant to me but I assume had some relevance as otherwise why would they ask me the question?

My, this thread is eye-opening.

DP (ND) can be like this at times of heightened anxiety; asking very specific questions and expecting answers which fall precisely within his expected parameters. He gets bothered if, within the first couple of syllables of responding, it looks like an answer might be other than expected.

Example:

DP: "Are we going out straight after Dan comes home from football?"

Expected answer: yes or no.

Usual context: Dan always comes home from football at 18:30.

New, unknown to DP, development: Dan's lift has bailed so he'll be walking home, ETA 19:00.

Reasonable reply by me: "Dan just messaged me. His lift has bailed so he'll be walking home, ETA 19:00. We'll leave straight after that."

DP: (usually by the time I've hit the 3rd unexpected word) "Oh my days, just 'yes' or 'no', that's aaaaaall I ask! exasperated sigh", failing to take in the change of circumstance.

Lots of situations like these:
"Are we taking the A59 or shall we go up Houghton Way?"
(I've checked traffic updates and seen delays which promt considering a 3rd route, so I venture:)
"I've just checked the AA traffic updates, and as there are severe delays on both those routes, I'd suggest -"
"Jeesus, what is wrong with just answering the question the way I've asked it!? A59 or Houghton Way!?", again missing relevant information.

It is a deep reluctance to acknowledge that communication is a two-way process where both parties, unless one is under interrogation in a witness box, are able to respond with a reasonable degree of autonomy. I get furious with him -I don't owe him comms compliance-, but remind myself that he processes language so differently to anyone I know (paradoxically, he's an inspired lyricist and poet).

Agreed. Becoming upset and shutting down because of plans going off-kilter is such a point of stress in my life, and no amount of rationalising can stop it happening. I guess if I could rationally think my way out of being autistic, I wouldn't be autistic anymore.

Yes, this is exactly it. I think the school teacher was being very defensive and I assume found it quite hard. I'm not sure how much was being a bit sly like deliberately not answering to cover things up or if she was just genuinely out of her depth.

Because OP you are being a dog with a bone! People have given you reasons why this might be the case and yet the only question you are asking - we can’t actually answer, you’ve framed it like a general question when you want a specific answer.

Why didn’t they answer? We don’t know - not it could be …. Yet still you keep asking the same questions

Teachers understand autism, they really do, and they k ow that if they say X you’ll argue Y.

But you don’t want that answer.

like PP said, school is full, there’s too many children and not enough rooms, or teachers or budgets, or other staff, no money for supplies.

100 less 6th formers doesn’t not make the school less full. 6th form is a different budget and a different curriculum-

If shop A is only using half its floor space or doesn’t give shop B the right to use the other half. Even if 6th form isn’t using ‘their’ areas doesn’t mean you can.

I don't disagree with you. I'm not a planner at all and actually hate to be pinned down by a schedule or plans. So as you can imagine, life in our house can be fun at times!
We are adapting to our differences with give and take. I try to have a rough schedule for him, which is harder now hes an adult. And I make the effort to have the answer to "What's for tea tonight?" at 8am 😅 And he's learning to understand that I can't always give him an exact answer. I've explained to him that sometimes I'm worried about giving him an answer when plans might change, because it aggravates him. Which he accepts a lot of the time now. He's also getting more accepting of an 'ish' time. We are muddling through together.

In terms of answering questions it is also important to understand the power dynamics.

You want something that a state resource has.
This gives them more power in the conversation, they have a wanted thing and they are a state backed body.

It is socially expected that that the person with the most power in the conversation will have more control over it.

I have this all the time, so much so that I've mentioned it to others to see if it happens to them.

A good example of when it happens to me is in an academic setting, say at uni. Others will ask a question and the tutor answers what they asked. I ask a question (very specific and nuanced) and they NEVER answer what I am actually asking about. I used to try to clarify, and clarify but they never 'get' it. So frustrating.

It's like people have an idea of what they think I am asking and answer that instead of thinking about the very precise thing I am querying. But it doesn't seem to happen to others, so I have to think it's just me (strong ASD traits with 2 autistic children here).

There are lots of other examples, and usually it's people doing a job rather than family that misunderstand me. It also happens when I write a post about something and people pick up on something I didn't even mean or imply. I get tired of trying to say - no, you're wrong. I didn't say nor mean that.

So what's the point of the appeal if the school refuse to engage in it?

I also really agree with this and forgot to include it in my reply! It has taken me DECADES to understand that not everyone is "allowed" an equal say in all meetings or situations, and even now having thought about it a lot, I still slip up in the heat of the moment.

@EveSix

Perfect examples of what I'm describing 😃

You could have answered question 1 with "Yes", and question 2 just as succinctly, so neither me nor your DP can comprehend the need for you to "show your workings", it's just needless brain-clutter and waffle to us

Op, I think you are getting caught up by what it means for a school to be “full”

Yes, I could theoretically cram some
more kids into some of my classes. However, the classes with “room” in them might have a higher proportion of kids with ASN (who would be negatively impacted by a larger class size)
There is probably enough rooms in the school to throw in a full other class, by splitting up current classes. However, we are already working at our maximum number of contact periods, therefore it wouldn’t be possible to staff it.
Rooms also have different purposes. I could probably take my older kids to a smaller room; however the technical resources I need for my lesson are in my classroom - and I also use it with another lot of pupils where the class size is too large to use the smaller room
(and the equipment is large and heavy, so can’t be moved safely)
It is also on my risk assessment that I’m only allowed to teach on the same floor as my classroom due to an injury.

@RelationshipOrNot

I think you have explained precisely what has happened here.

also : if the OP had been as tenacious in her demands to the panel for what appears to most people to be irrelevant information as she has been in her responses to her original post, the ‘reluctance’ to engage with this point is understandable.

(I expect they wanted to go home sometime that night.)

The first part of the hearing is about these things. Capacity, room size, class size, staff.

At this school the 6th form doesn't have specific classrooms.

Yes, these things are complex, but we have a right to ask questions about them as this is the basis of the school's appeal.

Also to add as someone who has been through two (LA conceded) SEND tribunals for schools, I totally get why you need that very specific information and I have acquired and used similar information myself. SEND tribunals DO want to know where there is space in the school, if new classrooms can be formed, if extra children can be accommodated with additional funds (where there is physical space).

The school probably knows this hence their being obstructive. A tribunal could look at the answers to those questions and decide that space can be found, so I get where you are coming from, whereas others in this thread won't have that experience or know why the questions are very relevant.

Thank you for giving the other side.

I just find it so difficult not to be given an answer. I think as an adult I understand when there isn't an answer, though.

The questions I ask have answers. I think I maybe like to understand things in more detail than the average person. But with my incident today it is completely appropriate to ask these types of questions. Even one of the panel asked her an in-depth question that he repeated a couple of times before giving up.

Yes and it drives me absolutely bonkers. And then I ask again and again till they get annoyed with me (or dh nudges me to stop being annoying and weird) and I still don't get a proper answer.

Also, if I ask more than one question I expect more than one answer.

(I'm not autistic though as far as I know.)

Do you have any neuro diversity or something else that causes you to have meltdowns?

That's the impression I get too.

Severe Borderline PD, OCD and complex PTSD.

Its not very clear what you mean or how it could be relevant though. Sixth form is separate so their numbers are irrelevant. Quieter corridors can be made as a point but doesn't follow really as sixth form have frees, possibly leave the site, can be late etc.
Also why do you keep saying school teacher? Teachers are not involved in any appeals, governor, head and the panel not teachers.

So whatever they do/say isn't good enough unless you get the answer you want?
If you're not hearing what you want the staff are either sly or out of their depth can't imagine why you're not someone they're Jumping through fire hoops to admit to their school!

How do you know when I've not given any of my questions?
Where have I said anything about altering layout?

The first part of the appeal is about class size, classroom space, the school's capacity, the amount of staff

So obviously the questions are around those things.