Page 14 | If you are autistic do people often not answer the question you are asking but give a more generalised answer?

Hotandsunny · 2023-11-07T22:20:34+00:00

Just a thought that came to mind. I often find when I ask people questions about something very specific they don't seem to get it and just give you a general answer. I don't know what it is. But I have oftenish been in a situation where people just don't seem to understand what you are asking. So I was wondering if it was an autistic thing. The example from today was I was doing a school appeal and the school had sent a list of rooms and room sizes as evidence that the school was full. I tried to question the school about what the different rooms were used for, about class sizes and what rooms the 6th form used. All the deputy head could do was repeat that Y7 was full. I say you haven't answered my question and ask again and get the same reply. A member of the panel says to me I just don't like the reply I'm getting. I don't, because it doesn't answer my question. This isn't an isolated incident by a long shot.

GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 00:02

GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 00:01

Yeah people do do that, you’re right.

It isn’t just the inference that people take from questions which I find interesting, it’s the way they respond.

So, If asked, for example- did you sleep train? If so, Didn’t it upset you when your baby cried?

many people would get defensive and upset about their choice BUT some people would take the line of ‘both choices are valid, it depends what works for that family’.

I find that almost a vague way of thinking because in my head a) clearly I think my way of doing it is best- if I thought your way was better then I would have done that instead.
b) given that I think my way is the best way, I wouldn’t feel defensive if people thought the other way was better- I would think they were wrong (I accept people are allowed to do things the Wrong Way).

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@Hotandsunny sorry, I’ve gone off on a tangent there!

Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 00:08

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 23:21

I think also in NT communication it's considered rude to say "I won't answer that question" - I don't really know why actually. So I think people try to come up with an answer they can give in order not to be rude but also not answer the question they don't want to answer.

And saying I can't answer or I don't know is seen as avoidant or even evidence that the person is incompetent or stupid, so again people generally try to avoid saying that and will instead either try to come up with an indirect way to answer the question so that they can give an answer, but also sometimes people just make stuff up! Which is really annoying if you find it out later, but most of the time people don't find out, so it stays as an uncorrected habit and people keep doing it all their lives.

I actually think being seen to be polite is a big reason English people end up not being clear. Autistic people are often are seen as being rude for being direct, although to me it's just telling the truth.

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GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 00:12

Ger1atricMillennial · 08/11/2023 23:26

Then they could be perceived by other individuals of withholding information or not engaging. You are only viewing this from your point of view not the point of view of the officials in the room who have to manage everyones expectations.

Also, you have to ask what 6th Form rooms have to do with Yr 7 applications. If someone was asking that, I would be seeking to move on as there might be some more relevent questions.

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If they don’t give a clear answer then they are withholding information or not engaging anyway, they are just doing in a way that NT people find more socially acceptable.

Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 00:12

Ger1atricMillennial · 08/11/2023 23:26

Then they could be perceived by other individuals of withholding information or not engaging. You are only viewing this from your point of view not the point of view of the officials in the room who have to manage everyones expectations.

Also, you have to ask what 6th Form rooms have to do with Yr 7 applications. If someone was asking that, I would be seeking to move on as there might be some more relevent questions.

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But if they're withholding information they are doing that no matter how they dress it up.
If Y7 use the same rooms as the 6th form it is relevant.

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Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 00:16

Triplixate · 08/11/2023 23:29

So many NT people on this thread just refusing to accept ND people’s perspectives as valid… and yet we’re the ones with “poor theory of mind” 🙄 It just highlights how biased the world is to NT communication styles.. no wonder we’ve been labelled as socially deficit when no one can possibly consider if our viewpoints and experiences are valid.

There seem to be some people have come onti the thread that are interested in looking at both sides.

But yes, so many people initially just trying to say ND people's style of communication is wrong!

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Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 00:22

BertieBotts · 08/11/2023 23:35

One thing I find really interesting that I didn't get my head around for ages and ages is that there is a fairly common, (I think), ND (maybe just ADHD?) sense of curiosity about why people do things differently, but in NT communication the same exactly worded question is a veiled insult.

So for example on MN every so often you get a thread that is something like "Why do people choose to go through natural childbirth?" or "Why do some people not try breastfeeding?"

To me I always took these at face value and assumed ok, here's someone being curious, they made a choice that was different and it seemed so obvious to them that they are curious about what might make somebody lean the other way. But a lot of MNers will react with anger towards these types of thread and want to shut them down as being goady. Because to them, the implicit, unwritten line is "Only stupid idiot people would want to go through childbirth pain. Give me your reasons, so I can mock and laugh at them and feel superior that I made a better choice!"

I thought they were being weirdly defensive about this for years, and then I started to realise that they're right in some cases, because threads like that do attract some handwringing about why those poor other people made that obviously terrible choice.

But I think it's a shame because I always find it really interesting to read about why and how people make decisions and come to conclusions especially when they're different to what I'd have come to.

I completely get this. I'm very curious too and often been told that by asking a very genuine question that I actually meant all sorts of nasty things! No, I literally just mean what I typed!

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Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 00:28

cardibach · 08/11/2023 23:51

You remember I’m a teacher? Appeals interviews can be over several days and there has to be discussion. I’d say it’s rare to get a decision the same/next day.

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Many people told me they got the answer the same day. And no sorry, I didn't remember you were a teacher. After the first part the panel spent a short time then made the decision. There were only 2 appeals so the 2nd half didn't take too long. So I imagine the decision would have been decided there and then.

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Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 00:33

GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 00:02

@Hotandsunny sorry, I’ve gone off on a tangent there!

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Oh no, it's very interesting and I can relate. I am very black and white in my thinking.

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TwoShades1 · 09/11/2023 01:40

I have to say you sound quite difficult and fixated from this thread. Im quite glad I don’t work at your child’s new school, I feel like you will be one of those parents that’s always asking for “more information” or clarification. There’s always one that wants to know precisely what their child will be eating on Tuesday lunchtime of the biology trip that’s still months away.

InWalksBarberalla · 09/11/2023 02:15

I think another consideration is that many people don't like saying they don't know the answer to something - especially in a work based context when they could reasonably be expected to know the answer. As in they feel very uncomfortable saying they don't know. So instead they answer a different question .

InattentiveADHD · 09/11/2023 03:15

TwoShades1 · 09/11/2023 01:40

I have to say you sound quite difficult and fixated from this thread. Im quite glad I don’t work at your child’s new school, I feel like you will be one of those parents that’s always asking for “more information” or clarification. There’s always one that wants to know precisely what their child will be eating on Tuesday lunchtime of the biology trip that’s still months away.

No she doesn't. She's just communicating clearly and explaining her point in the face of loads of NTs who are telling an autistic person they are communicating incorrectly simply because they ask clear questions and want clear answers to the question asked. Honestly the responses on this thread have made it really clear why ND people find society so bloody difficult. NTs are supposed to be good at this and find it easy so why can't you adjust a little to allow some other, slightly different, but not unreasonable ways of communicating into the mix. There's literally no movement on your side. Do it our way or fuck off!!

(Not including the PP who does try to make adjustments- thank you! - but sadly you seem to be in the minority!)

LittleMooli · 09/11/2023 05:23

GoodnightGentlemen · 08/11/2023 22:14

my son prefaces ever question by saying ‘question’. I often end up saying ‘you asked X- my answer is Y’.

and it needs to be specific- my dad once tried to take him out and was back home 2 minutes later because the conversation went son- how long is the drive to McDonald’s?” Dad- “5 minutes” son- “how long is that?” Dad “not long” son- “but how long is it?” Dad- “5 minutes isn’t long, it’s about the length of a YouTube video (?!)” son- “BUT HOW LONG IS IT” and frustrated tears. My dad brought him home and I opened the door to “he won’t tell me how long 5 minutes is sob sob sob”. I said, 5 minutes is 5 lots of sixty seconds, if you count using Mississippi. sobbing stopped replaced with “why didn’t he tell me that?!”.

So much easier just to be precise in the first place.

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It takes a lot of practice though.

PriOn1 · 09/11/2023 06:05

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PriOn1 · 09/11/2023 07:24

Well, OP, now I’ve read all your replies and it would appear I inadvertently proved that the answer to your original question was “yes”.

So it appears that your looking for loopholes in their argument was exactly the task you were meant to be doing in the circumstances and you were successful, which is hopefully good for your daughter.

GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 07:48

@PriOn1 she was probably just wanting to know exactly why the answer was no, and could think of several factors that could affect the decision so wanted to know if/how those factors affected it.

Also, she probably wasn’t trying to brow beat of manipulate a different answer, but rather just seeing if the reasons for ‘no’ could be overcome.

so question
“can I have pizza for dinner?”
“no”.
“Why not?”
“it’s too expensive and you had one already this week”.

some people think this is the end of the discussion- but it doesn’t actually resolve the questions.

so money wise:

”can I have it if I pay for it from my pocket money?”
”can I have it if I have a smaller/cheaper option than usual?”
”could we go halves on the cost?”
”how come I was allowed 2 takeaways last week?”

is it because it’s unhealthy?:

”can I have it if I agree not to have one next week?”
”can I have one if I don’t have chips with it so it’s healthier?”
”can I have it if I don’t have pudding so it’s healthier?”

All of that needs to be discussed before you have a full answer to seemingly a simple question.

Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 09:00

TwoShades1 · 09/11/2023 01:40

I have to say you sound quite difficult and fixated from this thread. Im quite glad I don’t work at your child’s new school, I feel like you will be one of those parents that’s always asking for “more information” or clarification. There’s always one that wants to know precisely what their child will be eating on Tuesday lunchtime of the biology trip that’s still months away.

I've actually always had a great relationship with all my Dd's teachers. I admit I can be difficult in certain situations i.e when I feel I'm not being listened to, but I never felt like that at DD's school.

Have you not thought that parents of ND children need time to prepare their DC for new experiences?

If parents are asking for clarification maybe you haven't been clear? I have to say my Dd's old school were always very clear with their communication so I didn't need to ask for clarification.

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Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 09:06

InattentiveADHD · 09/11/2023 03:15

No she doesn't. She's just communicating clearly and explaining her point in the face of loads of NTs who are telling an autistic person they are communicating incorrectly simply because they ask clear questions and want clear answers to the question asked. Honestly the responses on this thread have made it really clear why ND people find society so bloody difficult. NTs are supposed to be good at this and find it easy so why can't you adjust a little to allow some other, slightly different, but not unreasonable ways of communicating into the mix. There's literally no movement on your side. Do it our way or fuck off!!

(Not including the PP who does try to make adjustments- thank you! - but sadly you seem to be in the minority!)

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Yes, there's definitely almost a moral judgement against us for communicating differently from the NT or for needing to know what is happening etc.

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Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 09:17

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It's the panel that make the decision not the school. I'm meant to ask the school questions.

I think the thing is when you are autistic you do see all the details/complexities of a situation opposed to ND people see the overall picture. And without being given information on the details it is hard to really understand the overall picture.

So I think in my situation maybe someone NT would have looked at the rooms list and thought oh a good proportion of the rooms are under 60m so the school may struggle for space or whatever conclusion they may draw. But for me I look at that list and I think 'what proportion are under 60?' 'which rooms need more space but for fewer children e.g food tech?', 'how many pupils will be using the communal space?' 'can the smaller groups in 6th form use these small rooms?'

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PriOn1 · 09/11/2023 09:17

Yes @GoodnightGentlemen I completely messed up with my first response and accept that part of the problem with my colleague was misunderstanding. I did get better at dealing with it. Often the answer was that it affected other people too much and it would (justifiably) piss them off. I had to be honest about that and just say so, though it wasn’t popular. The staff member struggled with lots of things she had to do as part of her job, but didn’t have a diagnosis (I think perhaps because the system was poor - my own child was diagnosed as a child, which was much easier) so we were in a difficult position when it came to reasonable adjustments.

I thought, having read the whole thread that the OP was maybe right about the new teacher being out of her depth. She may have known that if she answered truthfully that the OP would be found to have a point - and also know that she would be unpopular if she lost the appeal.

Life is often filled with shades of grey we can only guess at.

Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 09:19

PriOn1 · 09/11/2023 07:24

Well, OP, now I’ve read all your replies and it would appear I inadvertently proved that the answer to your original question was “yes”.

So it appears that your looking for loopholes in their argument was exactly the task you were meant to be doing in the circumstances and you were successful, which is hopefully good for your daughter.

Ha ha, yes, it is what you have to do! And yes, hopefully my DD will settle in quickly at her new school.

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BettyBakesCakes · 09/11/2023 09:20

crackofdoom · 07/11/2023 22:28

Frequently. They answer what they think you are implying by asking that question, rather than just answer the question.
And they think we're the weird ones 🙄

This 😃

Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 09:21

GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 07:48

@PriOn1 she was probably just wanting to know exactly why the answer was no, and could think of several factors that could affect the decision so wanted to know if/how those factors affected it.

Also, she probably wasn’t trying to brow beat of manipulate a different answer, but rather just seeing if the reasons for ‘no’ could be overcome.

so question
“can I have pizza for dinner?”
“no”.
“Why not?”
“it’s too expensive and you had one already this week”.

some people think this is the end of the discussion- but it doesn’t actually resolve the questions.

so money wise:

”can I have it if I pay for it from my pocket money?”
”can I have it if I have a smaller/cheaper option than usual?”
”could we go halves on the cost?”
”how come I was allowed 2 takeaways last week?”

is it because it’s unhealthy?:

”can I have it if I agree not to have one next week?”
”can I have one if I don’t have chips with it so it’s healthier?”
”can I have it if I don’t have pudding so it’s healthier?”

All of that needs to be discussed before you have a full answer to seemingly a simple question.

I love this example - this is definitely my ND DC if I say no to pizza! 😂

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PriOn1 · 09/11/2023 09:22

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 09:17

It's the panel that make the decision not the school. I'm meant to ask the school questions.

I think the thing is when you are autistic you do see all the details/complexities of a situation opposed to ND people see the overall picture. And without being given information on the details it is hard to really understand the overall picture.

So I think in my situation maybe someone NT would have looked at the rooms list and thought oh a good proportion of the rooms are under 60m so the school may struggle for space or whatever conclusion they may draw. But for me I look at that list and I think 'what proportion are under 60?' 'which rooms need more space but for fewer children e.g food tech?', 'how many pupils will be using the communal space?' 'can the smaller groups in 6th form use these small rooms?'

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Yes, I apologize for not reading the whole thread before responding! Obviously your question was wholly appropriate in the circumstances and you were successful. The situations were different. I was good friends with my (probably) autistic colleague, believe it or not. I probably came across as wholly unsupportive but was trying to describe my experience.

BettyBakesCakes · 09/11/2023 09:24

I also find I sometime say something and a nt person will claim I've said something else, even when it's in written form and that's literally not what I wrote. Happens all the time on here. And they say WE have communication problems! I'm not so sure lol.

Original poster

Hotandsunny · 09/11/2023 09:26

PriOn1 · 09/11/2023 09:22

Yes, I apologize for not reading the whole thread before responding! Obviously your question was wholly appropriate in the circumstances and you were successful. The situations were different. I was good friends with my (probably) autistic colleague, believe it or not. I probably came across as wholly unsupportive but was trying to describe my experience.

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I'm pretty sure we're all guilty of not reading a whole thread quite often!

And I appreciate you describing your experience from your viewpoint as it's really useful to understand your reasoning.

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