Trans/pride flag in children's stickers

[timeforacoffeebreak]

This was included in a pack of squishmallow stickers... why???
AIBU or is this totally wrong ??

So a predatory male can legally enter these spaces anyway and doesn't need to be trans/ pretend to be trans

That’s what rape survivors were told they had to do when their rape crisis centre admitted transwomen to their support group. “Reframe their trauma.”

Glad you agree how insulting and disdainful that is.

@MrsSkylerWhite I haven't posted any links, dubious or otherwise. The school initiative is called 'The Rainbow flag award' And all the schools in my area, advertise that they are doing it on their websites. Here is the link to that
https://www.rainbowflagaward.co.uk/

You are digging your heels in. From your post that kids wouldn't know the flag, because you don't. They do.

They aren't just being taught about accepting LGB people. They are being influenced to use gender based language that they aren't developed enough to understand. So a 9 year old doesn't feel sexually attracted to anybody, so they should label themselves as A sexual? Isn't it accepted for a 9 year old to not feel sexual attraction? A 9 year old doesnt feel girly enough because shes not into make up and nails, and prefers sports and climbing trees still. So she must be non binary or a trans.
Can't you see how bonkers that is? And how it's sexualising children and having them buy into a gender language that is unhealthy, sexist and homophobic?

Well you are, as you've clearly never had to attend a rape support group and have a male, who didn't even attempt to pass as a woman (whatever the fuck that means) sit and listen to your horrific story, and when you objected was called a bigot, like a fellow Mumsnetter. Or have your space in sport stolen but someone who has a physiological advantage to you that you've trained for all your life. Or you know, just felt uncomfortable in a changing room as a penised male is walking about.

You are very, very privileged.

So a predatory male can legally enter these spaces anyway and doesn't need to be trans/ pretend to be trans

Any male can enter a female space legally. It's not a "legal" issue. Why do you think traditionally they haven't done so?

Quote fail @IDontHateRainbows

Oh I see, you mean it's because it's not recognising how deep dysphoria can be. I'm sorry if I seemed flippant.

You've said yourself you have no experience of this. People who have transitioned talk very much about feeling better or feeling worse as a result of different things they do. And the frequency with which it doesn't make them feel better in the long run, but instead leads them from one action to another and from reversible actions like putting on a frock to irreversible ones like surgery in pursuit of feeling better (which like I said doesn't always work) is a big worry. And assuming you care about people with dysphoria you should worry about that too.

I assume you know that although adults who are gay or trans often felt "different" as children, most of the children who feel "different" about their gender as children don't grow up to be trans? It hasn't been well studied but such studies as have been done show a much stronger strong link beetween gender issues in childhood and growing up to be gay than trans. So it's not possible to say "this child will grow up gay, that one will need to transition". And it's unhealthy to teach children that being gender non-conforming or uncomfortable with their gender as children implies that they are or will be "trans". (I have some links to studies somewhere, if you need them)

We're learning the hard way that gender dysphoria can be induced and embedded. And once it's there it's much harder to fix.

And no, an opinion piece in The Daily Mail is not worthy of consideration

OK, maybe someone has a better link.

So people who say they were gay when they were young children are liars, Fionaville? I don’t suppose they were sexualised then either, but still they knew. Being gay or trans is about a great deal more than being sexual!

If you tell me that primary school children know this flag, I believe you. Why on earth wouldn’t I, you’re clearly much more informed than I am. I simply don’t take issue with it as you do because I believe that teaching understanding and compassion from the get go is a good thing.

Bowing out now because it seems that as a woman, simply disagreeing with zealots on this thread makes me somehow “privileged” (ha! far from it) and somehow dubious and letting the side down. I simply don’t agree with them on every point and believe in compassion. It’s allowed. I suspect that in RL most women feel the same way but they’re not daft enough to try to engage in such tunnel visioned threads.

OK, maybe someone has a better link.

It's already been copied and pasted on to the thread. But it's much easier to flounce than engage in any depth with the issues here.

George was born Georgina, but always known as George because she was a tomboy. She had a wonderful, supportive and loving family, wanted for nothing and pretty much lived life as a more “masculine” girl - captain of the football team, always popular and invites to parties… but for some reason was still miserable? Took antidepressants through majority of teen years. We turned 18/19 and George told us actually, I’m a trans man. Lives now as a trans man. Dates a wonderful woman, is happy, has a great job. And is an amazing man!

I wish your friend all the best, but it's not possible to identify into or out of being female.

Tunnel vision from someone who states 'well it doesn't bother me in my teeny tiny world so it's not a problem'. With that kind of argument it's best you do bow out.

I simply don’t agree with them on every point and believe in compassion. It’s allowed.

I don't mind the disagreement, it's the ignorance. It's not compassionate to induce dysphoria in children who would otherwise grow up gay.

It's not tunnel vision to know a lot more about it than you do.

Privileged? No. After various difficulties in life, now pretty average women, all of us. Who just happen to feel differently to you. It happens.

I reckon you must be pretty privileged, in fairness.

You're able to have no concerns about what it might be like to end up in prison, or you loved ones, and end up locked up with violent men.

Unlike my friend, you aren't a rape survivor who now has a profound fear of all strange men and has a panic attack at the thought of them in intimate spaces like changing rooms.

You aren't a domestic abuse survivor, living in a hostel, now having to worry about men accessing these safe spaces.

You aren't a sportswomen, dealing with opportunities being taken away from her by men.

You aren't sick or disabled, needing intimate care, now concerned that you aren't able to specify this comes from a woman.

You aren't a lesbian, wanting to access women only events and dating apps

This is how women are affected by men entering their spaces. It betrays a degree of privilege that none of these are issues you need to worry about

It's okay I didn't think you were being awkward! Thanks for considering the article and the issues the author raised.

For what it's worth, I used to think these were all isolated incidents of misbehaviour. It was thinking about how boundaries were being changed from sex to gender identity, in a way that enabled all this, that changed my mind to seeing it as a broader issue.

Just reposting this in the hope someone might answer.

People who knew they were gay as children had time to process that. They wouldn't have come out until they were at least out of primary school. But now we have little kids, pre schoolers even, being trans because of the clothes they want to wear.
I find it very strange that you think it's acceptable to label a young child as A sexual. It's also strange to label them hetero or homosexual. Would you not be uncomfortable if a young primary school child told you "I'm straight" I would find it odd. As in, they are children. Young children. They shouldn't be referred to as anything sexual at all. They are children. They are being sexualised and groomed.

@MrsSkylerWhite also I know it can be overwhelming when so many other commenters pile in to argue, often quite adamantly, so I totally understand about why you're bowing out of the conversation. I am genuinely sorry if I contributed to making you feel unwelcome when putting my view across! Wasn't my intention

No, it wasn't

I think for the best part the thirty odd pages of this thread have been conducted in good faith. There have been several commentators taking the time to articulate the issues, concerns and try and explain to the skeptical where they are coming from. It is evident that there is at times frustration when people refuse to accept that maybe, just maybe, those concerns might be valid and are not borne out of malice or being 'a bigot'. I am still finding it surprising that people are rolling up here with a 'it's just a rainbow and a cat what's the problem' mindset or can't accept that letting self ID'd men into woman's spaces might carry negative consequences.

No, it wasn't

Yes it was, thanks. I meant to quote you in italics, but i didn't.

Will you accept The Times as a trustworthy news source?

The reframe your trauma line was said by a man claiming to be a women who runs Edinburgh Rape Crisis

So mavis was just repeating his words

Sorry. I thought you meant my quote, not yours!

Anyway I think I have the most apt username for this thread

😁

Not enough sparkles or 'be kind' motifs in your username.

Mine is named after my local pub (which allows lesbian dating)