Trans/pride flag in children's stickers

[timeforacoffeebreak]

This was included in a pack of squishmallow stickers... why???
AIBU or is this totally wrong ??

I know but you are assuming he is a physical danger to women in single sex spaces based on that and I'm saying anyone with a sexual or violent history (recorded) would never have been approved for work in a front line NHS role.

I'm not 'assuming' anything.

Because I don't think it's only men with sexual or violent histories that should stay out of women's spaces. All of them should.

As for F, he has amply demonstrated how little respect he has for women's wishes and boundaries - particularly shocking, given how vulnerable this woman is and how deeply reliant she is on other people for her health, safety and dignity.

Why would ANYONE want this man in their space since has demonstrated how little he cares for women's rights and boundaries?

Firstly, I was abused by a patient transport driver employed by the ambulance service over the summer whilst alone with him on my journey to hospital - the investigation is still ongoing . I'm sure he passed a dbs check, but that didn't stop what happened to me.

Freda no longer works for the ambulance service, see the Keating five post after yours.

Plus you can't assume no criminal or sexual offending. Just because someone passes a dbs check (that relies on the transgender person being honest and revealing their old sex marker and name) doesn't mean they are squeaky clean it just means they've never been caught/prosecuted.

Freda is the owner of the sex dungeon.

The fact is all four photos are of transwoman the left photo on each set is the same man. Until he was found guilty of two rapes he'd have passed a dbs check And was allowed to be in a room full of naked teenagers as part of his beauty course at college

It's not transphobic to not want to be raped or attacked or have my personal boundaries trampled on.

As transwomen all of the men in the photos want access into women's single sex spaces. And the rapist as a transwoman is entitled to demand that whether he looks like the top photo or the bottom one. The man in the beard also feels entitled to enter women's spaces.

How am I supposed to know which one of them is in there just to pee and which one may be the rapist looking for an opportunity?

All other men aren't allowed in female spaces as we don't know which will attack us And which won't. 'Good men stay out so that the bad men stand out' So why do this group of men get special privileges just because of the fact they say "I am a woman"?

Men who say they are women are just as much as a threat to women as men who don't say that.

If I was in the ladies and a male vetted ambulance worker came in to use the facilities I'd be okay with that althoughi recognise not everyone would. Not sure this twitter stuff is relevant.

I get your point that how do you know its not a rapist like the other man as obviously one doesn't know who has been vetted or who has a criminal history when seeing a stranger in the loo.

If I was in the ladies and a male vetted ambulance worker came in to use the facilities I'd be okay with that althoughi recognise not everyone would

Ok, you don't get to consent for everyone else though, I assume you understand that.

The twitter stuff is extremely relevant. First of all, because a very vulnerable women said no to him (the prospect of men like him giving her care) and his response was not to respect her wishes, but to send nasty abuse her way until she left the platform.

Secondly because he's been relieved of his job responsibilities as a result of his behaviour.

I think you are being polite by describing his behaviour as mere 'harassment'. I think Fred sending photos of him getting his 'lady penis' sucked off in his personal sex dungeon to said disabled woman might have contributed to his dismissal. Quite how he still gets invited to events after that is beyond me although watching him turn up shitfaced at the IEA debate the other week was funny. Even Tatchell looked embarrassed.

I don't want him in single sex spaces. He's an abusive man.

I don't want any male in female single sex spaces.

None of them.

Good men stay out so bad men stand out.

The one on the right no longer work for the ambulance service after sending abusive content to a severely disabled woman. They may have been heavily vetted for the job before they started to frequent the sex dungeon which they used images of to abuse and sexual harass a woman they disagreed with.

At what point do you feel society should remain silent about concerns over fears of transphobia accusations? If a person visits a sex dungeon and posts about it on their social media that is a concern regardless of their gender if they need to have a dbs check. If the dbs check is redone and they are clear to work in that role, that should be the end of the story unless something occurs that changes that dbs validity.

There was a male person promoted to a leadership position in girl guides here in the UK. That person posted images of themselves in bdsm gear and with bath tub shots with supposedly sexy messages. That bath tub shot was then used as a profile shot in their fb profile overlaying a long shot of little girls in ballerina clothing. At least one mother complaining to girl guides received a police visit for sending in a complaint.

Many women on MN were called transphobic for complaining. Because somehow, this group of male people seem to be considered by some other people to not need to be held to the same risk assessment processes as all other males in the UK. We know there are many male trans people who most certainly agree they are male and should be considered male people for safeguarding by the way. So even in the group of trans people who are male there is dissension about this.

So, I think discussions about when do concerns crossover to being transphobic need to be had. I suspect the answer is, when there is a lack of symmetry to the concerns if viewed as if groups of people are treated differently to others in the same protected characteristic group where that characteristic matters. And so for that purpose, all male people should be treated the same for safeguarding measures.

ihaterainbows

I am glad that you understand that women might not want any male in the female toilet. Because I am sure that you understand that female people (all ages and genders) use the female toilets for more than just peeing. It is those other uses that also need to be considered because they also require as much privacy from any male person over the age of about 8.

Uses such as being semi naked cleaning clothes from stains of blood, milk, food and baby nappy accidents, and having to wash blood from hands or getting changed because toilets are filthy or no space and that is just the basin area.

Then there are doors that don’t lock, or cannot be closed because of push chairs, or wheel chairs if no accessible toilets are available, then there are emergencies such as miscarriages or as we have seen from some threads - actual deliveries.

There are women and girls who have been abused and are traumatised to be in an enclosed space that they believed was only female but who hear male voices or who come out and see a person with the male cues that cannot be hidden. There are women and girls who belong to religions that force them to self exclude from being in these spaces with male people. There are women and girls who deserve to have space away from any male above a certain age simply because they want privacy to use the toilet in the way that they need to and the way the toilet has been used since women got separated toilet facilities.

So, thank you for understanding that others do have concerns and that those concerns are valid. It is not that these people we wish to exclude are trans it is that they are male. Their sex become relevant in certain situations and toilet usage is one of those because it is so much more complex that the throw away line of ‘they just want to pee’.

I'm 45 and if I didn't know it was a progress flag I can't see an 8 year old would.

I am 60-odd and I wish I didn't know it was a "progress flag"! When you surround 8 year olds with happy innocent rainbows and then you tell them "this is what all those rainbows really mean" you've just associated the meaning with all those happy innocent images.

In schools some - I don't know how many! - 8 year olds are already being shown imagery of rainbows with the specific association of sexual orientation and gender identity on posters and other teaching materials about "diveristy and inclusion". Rainbows are often trademarks and symbols for the organisations who supply these materials. Your 8 year old may be more aware than you are.

Someone upthread asked me about swastikas. Well our children aren't growing up surrounded by swastikas but they are surrounded by rainbows, toys, clothes, labels. Don't let someone else tell your child what those rainbows mean. So joking aside I do believe in changing the narrative. For example you could say they mean what they used to mean - Noah's Ark, hope. Or the environmental and anti-nuke movements used rainbows too, back in the day. Then you can say "now some people have started using the rainbow to mean <whatever>" but at least you've already given your child an existing meaning and not just left an empty space for someone else to fill.

@Helleofabore

Their sex become relevant in certain situations and toilet usage is one of those because it is so much more complex that the throw away line of ‘they just want to pee’.

Or the 'why are you obsessed with other peoples genitals, that's creepy' line.

I understand all that but the question asked by the PP was 'who would want to be in a female space with any of these males' ( or something very like that)

I was answering that specific question when referring to the ambulance worker, on an individual basis.

If I'd been asked 'should all females be expected to share a space with these male' I'd have answered very differently.

You seem to have turned the question I answered into another question but as I said in a previous post, I understand my views may not be shared with other women.

I feel awful for the lovely trans people I have met over the years (f2m and m2f) the sex offenders in the earlier articles posted here must mean they are targeted with so much hatred in their everyday lives.

Wallace isn't even a sex offender, it's not illegal to own/ work in a sex dungeon as far as I'm aware unsavoury though it is.

Plenty of consenting adults indulge in kink without it being a criminal offence.

ok. I was thanking you for accepting other women don’t share your opinions and adding background on why they don’t.

I probably should have split the background part off so that was laziness on my behalf. However, it is nice to have someone acknowledge that it is ok for others to have different opinions.

Personally I feel worse for the victims of the sex offenders claiming a trans identity, but you do you.

Apologies I tried to ‘reply’ to the other one but it didn’t work 🙄

This too, I can see it from both sides.

It is the putting on line but that show that some people lack sexual boundaries. And if they are in a position of care such as safeguarding, lacking those boundaries by exposing the public to their sexual habits is a major red flag, don’t you think? Regardless of gender or sex?

Why do you feel they are targeted? Do you think women lack the ability to understand that not all people in a group are like those people?

Of course, there will be people out there who will believe all people in a group they disagree with are to be demonised. And yes, that is an issue. Do you think the issue comes from raising awareness that there are issues and describing how those issues impact women and children?

I also feel sorry for those trans people who are having to deal with this situation of which facilities do they use now they've changed his they preseng themselves to the world. But that's not my problem to solve.

Why is not wanting transwomen in single sex women's spaces hatred but not wanting men in single sex spaces OK?

Why do you think one group of individuals should be allowed to use facilities designed specifically for the opposite sex when they wouldn't be if they hadn't said "I am a woman" or "I am a man".

Why should gay man have to have transmen with vaginas on their dating apps?

Why should lesbians be denigrated for not wanting to suck dick when they discover the lesbian they are on a date with has a fully functioning penis and used to be called Kevin!

Of course there are lovely trans people, in just the same way there are lovely every other sort of people. And the lovely trans people know that using single sex spaces and services is not right and they use the correct sexed spaces or unisex ones.

But like with every other group of people there are trans people who transgress societal boundaries for their satisfaction and gain only, not giving one shiny shit about the people they upset or stop from from using single sex spaces because it is no longer single sex by virtue of the trans person in there.

Why is it OK to exclude a man from a changing room where I'm likely to be naked this week, but if I wish to exclude the same man next week when he's changed his name to Mildred and had an F printed on his driving license it's hatred and transphobic?

That man may have been perfectly nice and pleasant and safe to be around, but I didn't have to allow him in the changing rooms when he was claiming to be a man because the assumption is he could be a danger to me. So why do I have to ignore all that because of something some man feels in his head? And if I don't and I say actually I'm not OK with you being in here please leave im transphobic and hate trans people according to some people?

Make it make sense!

Very well said.

The legacy Gilbert Baker LBG rainbow flag has been utterly hijacked. Also, I don't think many people fully understand what the '+' bit of the LGBTQQIP2SA+ wifi acronym really represents. It is home to some fairly unsavory advocacy groups who are trying to use the vehicle of child friendly sparkly rainbows to publicly legitimise various kinks and fetishes that should not be anywhere near the classroom.

I feel awful for the lovely trans people I have met over the years (f2m and m2f) the sex offenders in the earlier articles posted here must mean they are targeted with so much hatred in their everyday lives.

So what? We should just ignore the behaviour of predatory men who now have Carte Blanche to access women's spaces? Because of the potential impact on trans people (who I note, do not tend to speak out much on this issue).

Is that what you're saying? We should just ignore the impact this is having on women because it's not politically convenient?

Yes, some transsexuals are very worried indeed about the likely (inevitable?) social backlash caused by rights overreach and by extending the "trans umbrella" to include all and sundry.

On the one hand, those who could have slipped quietly under the radar because they were non-obvious, or who would have been tolerated in some women's spaces just because they were such a very tiny minority and tried so hard to fit in, really do have a lot to lose. So do those who might get hit by a backlash against gender non-conforming behaviour.

And on the other hand, it's important to remember that being stopped from encroaching on women's spaces and women's rights and women's safety is not the same as "being targeted by hatred".

I guess I hope there can be a separate space? Keep everyone safe?