Trans/pride flag in children's stickers

[timeforacoffeebreak]

This was included in a pack of squishmallow stickers... why???
AIBU or is this totally wrong ??

If you campaign for that. It's not enough to just hope.

True

You’d think wouldn’t you but women have been explicitly told by TRA that third spaces are “transphobic”

Children like rainbows. Children like kittens. I think you are looking for something to be offended about.

Third spaces/ more unisex spaces never seems to be the solution the trans rights activists want though because they want the affirmation they receive and feel from using the sexed space they want to use regardless of who that upsets or displaces in the process.

And I'm at the point where all I actually care about is that women and children are being forced to be in spaces where they should feel perfectly safe but don't because someone who they know isn't the same sex as them is in their single sex spaces or sport or prison declaring that they are indeed the same sex as the rest of the people in there when they patently aren't.

Using the facilities you want because of a feeling in your head is not the solution. Third spaces is, and for a long time I'd have been right there beside them helping them fight for that. But now... They're on their own. Help was offered and refused. They want it they can fight for it and sort it. I just want women and children to be safe.

So until the transwomen and transmen can come up with a solution to this problem I just want men ALL men, and yes transwomen are indeed still men, to stay out of my single sex spaces and facilities. And I want transmen to stay out of the male single sex spaces. Yes they may all complain they can't go out as they can no longer pee in public facilities, but tough, they actually can, they can use unisex ones of the ones that match their actual sex. I'm not being restrained by the urinary leash just because some man feels like he's a woman. His feelings should not trump my rights.

That would be great! But this was suggested years ago and the women suggesting it were vilified and denigrated for suggesting it. Hence we now have some male people who demand to use female single sex spaces even when a venue has a sign saying clearly they have designated the space for female people under the EA2010 provisions. Meaning no male people at all.

Or we end up with female toilets disappearing completely and everything becoming mixed sex with floor to ceiling cubicles that still don’t fit a push chair or a wheelchair when an accessible is not immediately available, but may still have shared basins. Meaning all those other needs female people have are being ignored.

The male trans people who already respect the needs of women and girls stay out of female single sex spaces just like all other male people who similarly respect the needs of women and girls. They are not the issue.

The campaign also needs to be started by male trans people to demand that male people ensure that the male single sex spaces are inclusive and safe for them. Despite us asking repeatedly for those male trans people who arrive on MN to demonise and scold women for not wanting them in female single sex spaces, not one of them has started that campaign that would benefit all male people.

It is sad that there are good people who might be subjected to hurtful illegal discrimination and bullying. However, it is also important to acknowledge that there is legal and valid discrimination against all male people for safeguarding. Just as it is important to acknowledge the background of the situation we find ourselves in. It is a difficult one to navigate.

I think you need to read the thread and perhaps look again at the image.

Can you tell us what other political symbol such as the flag on the front of the cartoon animal you feel acceptable to be used on a children’s product?

I guess the answer boils down to who deserves to be 'collateral damage'.

Is it the poor trans people (who if they were decent would actually understand women's fears and use the spaces aligned with their sex)?

or is it women and children?

For the TRAs it's women and children, they either deny the harm happens in the first place or alternatively claim it's not bad enough.

How many women and children must be harmed for these males to do the right thing? Answer N+1 because first we were told it would never happen and now it is happening it's not bad enough for women and children to matter.

DistrictAndCircle · Yesterday 10:42

It’s a cat and a rainbow.
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There’s literally a rainbow in the sky as I type this, and yet I’m not marching off down to my kids’ school to demand that they close all the curtains in case my DD comes home telling me she’s a trans man.”

This. Some of the posts on this thread are completely OTT. (And I was a very over-protective mother).

The male trans people who already respect the needs of women and girls stay out of female single sex spaces just like all other male people who similarly respect the needs of women and girls. They are not the issue.

Do you know if there are many, indeed any, transwomen who use the male facilities out of respect for the needs of women and girls? I'd imagine this is fairly unusual.

I am 100% for third spaces and despite everything, would get involved in campaigning for them.

But this doesn't seem to be a desirable outcome for the TRAs

Blaire White is a high profile trans woman who does

Ereshkigalangcleg · Yesterday 17:27
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Is it a trans rights flag or is it a cat and a rainbow?
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It's the progress pride flag incorporating the trans flag, on the cat's belly. Look again.”

If an adult has to look again, it’s very likely that a child won’t notice/make any connection either.

As a 59 year old, heterosexual mother of adult woman/man, I wouldn’t know what a progress pride flag was if you curtained my windows with them. I expect I’m in the majority. Very much doubt the average primary school child would see anything other than a cat and a rainbow. .

As a 59 year old, heterosexual mother of adult woman/man

School children are being targeted with this stuff. You are not the target.

Why would you assume that?

I have been told on many occasions that posters male trans friends are indeed using male toilets. And I know some male people who are too. So they are out there. Of course they are not the ones vocal and making demands so they not going to be acknowledged by extreme trans rights activists.

And I use that term extreme for those making those demands to access spaces, sports, jobs roles etc. Trans people have every right to activate for their needs. It is to be respected. Except when there is conflict with another groups needs. Then an equitable solution needs to be found.

Two transwomen, Debbie Hayton and Fionne Orlander, started a campaign for third spaces for transpeople. It got no support from the vocal TRAs, or from the organisations you might think would be all over something which seems to provide a safe space for everyone, such as Stonewall. Wonder why.

Fionna Orlander has previously posted photos safely using the males loos without incident, and has said the most that ever happens is a bloke comes in, sees Fionne at the sink handwashing, and apologises for being in the wrong loo. Fionne tells him he's in the men's, and everyone goes about their day.

Boiledbeetle

They don’t look like primary school children. I would expect secondary school children to be taught about diversity and inclusivity. Would be surprised if they weren’t.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 11:27

As a 59 year old, heterosexual mother of adult woman/man
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School children are being targeted with this stuff. You are not the target”

You say targeted. Others say taught. I had confidence when my now adults were kids, that they could think for themselves and reach their own conclusions on hearing both sides of any story, which they did/do.

Would you be saying the same if it was a racist symbol hidden in a children's toy?

So you'd have been fine with your kids school giving kids National Front flags to wave then, and taught about being kind and inclusive to racists? As they'd hear both sides and make their own conclusions, there'd be no harm in that, would there?

No, obviously. Comparing homosexual/trans people to racist pigs is highly offensive.
Racism is a choice. Sexuality isn’t.

Though we never shyed away from talking to them about racism. I would hope it was covered in schools now, too.

The sexuality part isn't the problem, if you'd bother to read the thread.

I’ve read much of the thread but tired of the hyperbole and throth.

People comparing racism, which is a choice, to sexuality, which is not, is an huge problem. Do you not agree?