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To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

1000 replies

VestaTilley · 05/11/2023 23:43

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting
To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting
To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting
To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting
To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting
OP posts:
Thread gallery
41
PP82 · 08/11/2023 09:57

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 09:54

Trans men and non-binary? FFS. Please DFO with that bullshit. You don't need to bring your religious ideology into this. If you have a cervix, you're a woman. That's it. Full stop. Regardless of which religious tags you use.

I'm confused. I'm an atheist. What religious ideology did you suppose I was espousing?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 10:01

PP82 · 08/11/2023 09:57

I'm confused. I'm an atheist. What religious ideology did you suppose I was espousing?

The belief in an invisible undetectable "gender identity" that trumps material reality is akin to a religious belief.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:04

PP82 · 08/11/2023 09:57

I'm confused. I'm an atheist. What religious ideology did you suppose I was espousing?

Richard Dawkins, the eminent Biologist (and atheist) has said Gender Ideology is a religious cult. And he is right. It's a religion that demands full obedience and acceptance of lies as fact, and deems facts lies. When you are talking about trans men and 'non binary' on issues that affect women, you're spouting religious talking points. If you have ovaries, a uterus etc you are a woman, it doesn't matter what silly label you use. It's offensive and insulting to biological and anatomical reality.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 10:14

PP82 · 08/11/2023 09:42

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The biological mother is the one who gives birth to the baby. This is usually the same as the genetic mother, but in the case of egg donation, the biological and genetic mothers are different. A quick google should clear the matter up for you. A lot of people on this thread asserting misinformation as facts without doing 10 seconds of research.

I'm in my 40s, just had a miscarriage and will probably go on to use donor eggs. Very happy to have that possibility, and to be alive in a time where modern medicine has opened up so many options for me, and for other women with reproductive challenges. How other women choose to make money is none of my business, and I'm confident that the system is well managed with safeguards in place.

How other women choose to make money is none of my business

"choosy-choice" was debunked upthread.

will probably go on to use donor eggs

"me me me" "I'm alright Jack"

Anyone got a line on their libfem bingo card yet?

I'm confident that the system is well managed with safeguards in place.

This is the Scottish govt who were happily going to put Isla Bryson, intact male and convicted rapist, into a women's prison until the public outcry got too loud to ignore. I don't trust them to safeguard anything.

I'm sorry that you miscarried. At the same time, your distress at having done so doesn't give you the right to exploit another woman's body

No one has the right to a child.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:16

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 10:01

The belief in an invisible undetectable "gender identity" that trumps material reality is akin to a religious belief.

Right. Sorry, I spend almost no time at all on the TERFy threads as they wind me up. I think that's absurd, but whatever. None of this is the topic of the thread of course, though earlier posters have tried to find tenuous ways to conflate the issues.

However much certain people might wish to deny it, there are trans men and non binary people, as well as women, who have biologically female endocrine systems, and none of those systems are 'finely honed.'

IcakethereforeIam · 08/11/2023 10:18

PP82 · 08/11/2023 09:45

Many trans men and non binary people have ovaries, uteruses and menstrual cycles. Are you denying that? I thought that fact was kind of the crux of the whole 'gender critical' argument?

Yes, which makes 'em 'women'.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:18

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:16

Right. Sorry, I spend almost no time at all on the TERFy threads as they wind me up. I think that's absurd, but whatever. None of this is the topic of the thread of course, though earlier posters have tried to find tenuous ways to conflate the issues.

However much certain people might wish to deny it, there are trans men and non binary people, as well as women, who have biologically female endocrine systems, and none of those systems are 'finely honed.'

There is no need to drag up trans and non-binary. All you do is upset women and wind us up with you post that nonsense. It's infuriating beyond belief. The word women, is more than sufficient. Transmen and 'non-binary' don't even come into this discussion. Please keep that agenda out of this. It's about women, and only women. Nothing else.

nothingcomestonothing · 08/11/2023 10:20

However much certain people might wish to deny it, there are transman women and non binary people women, as well as women, who have biologically female endocrine systems, and none of those systems are 'finely honed.

FIFY

Waitwhat23 · 08/11/2023 10:20

Anyone else in Scotland sick of hearing the bloody ads for this - it seems to be almost constantly on the radio. There's clearly been a shit load of money spent on this campaign.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:26

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 10:14

How other women choose to make money is none of my business

"choosy-choice" was debunked upthread.

will probably go on to use donor eggs

"me me me" "I'm alright Jack"

Anyone got a line on their libfem bingo card yet?

I'm confident that the system is well managed with safeguards in place.

This is the Scottish govt who were happily going to put Isla Bryson, intact male and convicted rapist, into a women's prison until the public outcry got too loud to ignore. I don't trust them to safeguard anything.

I'm sorry that you miscarried. At the same time, your distress at having done so doesn't give you the right to exploit another woman's body

No one has the right to a child.

Legally, I have the right to have donor egg IVF. Almost no legal system in the world agrees with you on this. You can rage all you like, but you are in the minority and your views will not prevail.

I've been sexuality assaulted in women's toilets twice, both times by cis gendered men who simply forced open the door. The idea that trans women in 'women's spaces' are any meaningful threat is baseless nonsense. When men want to rape, they rape, regardless of their gender expression, and dragging trans women into the discussion of male sexual violence is frankly disgusting.

But this is all off topic. Rights are legally determined, and I have the legal right to use donor eggs to concieve my child. So I do have the right, whatever you say. And I'm definitely not a libfem.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:34

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:26

Legally, I have the right to have donor egg IVF. Almost no legal system in the world agrees with you on this. You can rage all you like, but you are in the minority and your views will not prevail.

I've been sexuality assaulted in women's toilets twice, both times by cis gendered men who simply forced open the door. The idea that trans women in 'women's spaces' are any meaningful threat is baseless nonsense. When men want to rape, they rape, regardless of their gender expression, and dragging trans women into the discussion of male sexual violence is frankly disgusting.

But this is all off topic. Rights are legally determined, and I have the legal right to use donor eggs to concieve my child. So I do have the right, whatever you say. And I'm definitely not a libfem.

You are the one who dragged trans into this. Transwomen are MEN. 92% of them retain their penis and testicles. Why do you think putting on a dress makes one male less dangerous than another male not wearing a dress? You are being absurd. The evidence and facts show women have been attacked and raped by transwomen in womens toilets, so you are misinformed, it's not 'baseless', indeed it's been proven over and over again that transwomen sexually offend at 5 times higher than rate that so-called 'cis' males do. I suggest you read up and educate yourself because your ignorance on this issue is frankly both astounding and disgusting.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:37

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:26

Legally, I have the right to have donor egg IVF. Almost no legal system in the world agrees with you on this. You can rage all you like, but you are in the minority and your views will not prevail.

I've been sexuality assaulted in women's toilets twice, both times by cis gendered men who simply forced open the door. The idea that trans women in 'women's spaces' are any meaningful threat is baseless nonsense. When men want to rape, they rape, regardless of their gender expression, and dragging trans women into the discussion of male sexual violence is frankly disgusting.

But this is all off topic. Rights are legally determined, and I have the legal right to use donor eggs to concieve my child. So I do have the right, whatever you say. And I'm definitely not a libfem.

Would you like a (long) list of women who have been attacked and raped by transwomen in womens spaces (including 4 rapes by transwomen in battered womens shelters? And links to the statistics and prison data that shows transwomen are more likely to offend than 'cis' men? Because I have plenty. It's obvious you genuinely have no idea how out of the loop you are.

A male doesn't become less of a risk just because he puts on a dress and high heels.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:39

Almost no legal system in the world agrees with you on this.

Yes, we are aware the laws allow exploitation and subjugation of women. Many things that are 'legal' are not right.

You can rage all you like, but you are in the minority and your views will not prevail.

You say that with such assurance I find it amusing. On the contrary, you will find that you are in the minority, most women disagree with you on this. Rules change overtime, and we will push until the laws are changed. Women will prevail. Sorry. But we will.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:41

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:18

There is no need to drag up trans and non-binary. All you do is upset women and wind us up with you post that nonsense. It's infuriating beyond belief. The word women, is more than sufficient. Transmen and 'non-binary' don't even come into this discussion. Please keep that agenda out of this. It's about women, and only women. Nothing else.

I choose to use inclusive language, and am more than entitled to. All the women I know would be upset by my failing to do so. The only women offended by such language exist on a small section of the internet. I've never encountered them in real life.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:44

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:41

I choose to use inclusive language, and am more than entitled to. All the women I know would be upset by my failing to do so. The only women offended by such language exist on a small section of the internet. I've never encountered them in real life.

You are not using 'inclusive' language, you are excluding actual women and simping for men. You are very naive if you think we're only a small section on the internet. In reality, most women who aren't captured by the religion and 'bekind' to the men while denying womens sex-based reality, are a small tiny group of people who have been brainwashed to think they are doing good, when all they are doing is progressing the cause of Meninism. In real life, most women and girls have no patience for this dangerous nonsense that is 'inclusive' which always means EXCLUDING women.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:47

#BeKind to the entitled men taking over our words ALWAYS comes at the expense of women. Our foresister feminists would be rolling in their graves at what some are doing to roll back all the rights they achieved for men, because they have been programmed to 'bekind' to men, at their and all womens expense. Eggs vs sperm, reproduction is based on sex imperative. Not 'gender' ideology. It's based on sex. So it's correct to use sex-based terms when dealing with a sex-based process. No man has eggs. Giving eggs is something only a woman can do. So can we please drop the religious cult talking points and stop hurting and offending women.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:49

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:39

Almost no legal system in the world agrees with you on this.

Yes, we are aware the laws allow exploitation and subjugation of women. Many things that are 'legal' are not right.

You can rage all you like, but you are in the minority and your views will not prevail.

You say that with such assurance I find it amusing. On the contrary, you will find that you are in the minority, most women disagree with you on this. Rules change overtime, and we will push until the laws are changed. Women will prevail. Sorry. But we will.

You are conflating egg donation and surrogacy for a start, when they are separate issues. I personally am fine with surrogacy, although I am aware that it is controversial, and it is illegal where I live. Egg donation, however, is legal almost everywhere (I know it is banned in Germany) and I'm not aware of any large scale controversy about it, or pushes to ban it. It is a widely accepted practice and I don't see that changing any time soon, or indeed in the more distant future, although synthetic eggs and embryos may eventually make the practice obsolete.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:59

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 10:37

Would you like a (long) list of women who have been attacked and raped by transwomen in womens spaces (including 4 rapes by transwomen in battered womens shelters? And links to the statistics and prison data that shows transwomen are more likely to offend than 'cis' men? Because I have plenty. It's obvious you genuinely have no idea how out of the loop you are.

A male doesn't become less of a risk just because he puts on a dress and high heels.

I don't wish to further derail the thread, but if you had any actual reliable data from a genuinely credible source 'that shows trans women are more likely to offend than 'cis' men' I'd be interested to see it.

But this thread is supposed to be about egg donation, not about surrogacy or trans rights, and I was not the one to raise this issue. People started shoehorning trans women in pages before I even commented, and it's irrelevant and tiresome.

As for the future, we'll see, but it doesn't look like it's going well for your lot.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 11:03

PP82 · 08/11/2023 10:26

Legally, I have the right to have donor egg IVF. Almost no legal system in the world agrees with you on this. You can rage all you like, but you are in the minority and your views will not prevail.

I've been sexuality assaulted in women's toilets twice, both times by cis gendered men who simply forced open the door. The idea that trans women in 'women's spaces' are any meaningful threat is baseless nonsense. When men want to rape, they rape, regardless of their gender expression, and dragging trans women into the discussion of male sexual violence is frankly disgusting.

But this is all off topic. Rights are legally determined, and I have the legal right to use donor eggs to concieve my child. So I do have the right, whatever you say. And I'm definitely not a libfem.

have the legal right to use donor eggs

You've conflated a lack of legal impediment to try for a child with a right to a child. They are not the same thing. If no one donates eggs, you don't get to use an egg donor. A right to an egg donor would indicate that you, or the State on your behalf, could compel someone else to supply you with eggs if no one willingly donated. Compare the right to a jury trial: the State compels members of the public to serve as jurors in order to grant the defendant their right to a jury trial. No one (yet, but I don't trust the Scots govt not to try in future) compels egg donation, so receiving donor eggs isn't a right, it's just something you aren't stopped from doing.

I've been sexuality assaulted in women's toilets twice, both times by cis gendered men who simply forced open the door.

They didn't need to force open the door, they opened it the normal way and walked through it. The door to women's loos isn't locked with a key only given to women, except in very rare workplace circumstances.

How do you know they were "cis gendered men"? Gender identity is invisible, so unless they told you or you asked, they could have been non-binary or transwomen.

When men want to rape, they rape, regardless of their gender expression

That's literally the point of gender critical feminism. It doesn't matter if a man calls himself a man, a non-binary, or a transwoman, he's still a member of the sex class that make up 49% of the population but constitute over 95% of sex offenders.

The idea that trans women in 'women's spaces' are any meaningful threat is baseless nonsense.

Isla Bryson. Barbie Kardashian, That TW who was in HMP New Hall for a while and carried out multiple sexual assaults in his first week there, what was his name? Go look at the "It never happens" thread in FWR.

I'm sorry that you were sexually assaulted. I'm puzzled that you haven't joined the dots between men using women as support humans to validate their gender identity, people using women as gamete donors via invasive and risky procedures, and other forms of exploitation of women.

And I'm definitely not a libfem.

Libfems aren't actually feminists.

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 11:04

https://fairplayforwomen.com/criminality/

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger-8lwbp8kgk

https://www.womensforumaustralia.org/rape_victim_fights_back_after_a_trans_identified_male_was_given

metro.co.uk/2018/02/14/man-caught-spying-woman-toilet-phone-rang-7312650/

www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/voyeur-man-record-videos-women-upskirt-toilet-sammyboy-2562461

www.nbcboston.com/news/local/north-shore-community-college-suspect-womens-bathroom/123106/

worldofbuzz.com/pervert-caught-spying-in-shells-ladies-toilet-tried-to-disguise-his-voice-as-female/

www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/man-to-be-sentenced-for-sailmakers-toilet-spying-2871318

www.9news.com.au/world/perth-news-man-allegedly-caught-in-female-toilets-in-shopping-centre/9be17e98-c009-40d1-906b-473ac7396579

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/supermarket-creep-banned-ladies-toilets-17183982

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/amp/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg?fbclid=IwAR1JhugsOSdg58PzKpMAfvzqZVXxb7mRWs93qWqQyBA6vupiwnk1U_BJOOc

www.fox46.com/news/transgender-woman-convicted-of-sexually-assaulting-10-year-old-girl-in-bathroom/

www.scotsman.com/regions/edinburgh-fife-and-lothians/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-girl-say-campaigners-140883?fbclid=IwAR2iMILdrlxCbawettem8KbyhpnRUfjpQIx8ZhPUiEeFGXCia1_soi-5JZI

www.foxnews.com/us/parents-speak-out-at-loudoun-county-school-board-meeting

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

transcrimeuk.com/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10472547/Trans-rapist-25-groomed-13-year-old-girl-jailed-100-months.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10596441/Woman-83-parole-killing-two-arrested-charged-murder-sfa.html

https://www.scotsman.com/regions/edinburgh-fife-and-lothians/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-girl-say-campaigners-140883

https://reduxx.info/australia-man-who-sexually-abused-child-in-public-restroom-with-her-penis-now-identifies-as-transgender/

Study suggests that transwomen exhibit a male pattern of criminality • Fair Play For Women

When looking at ANY CRIMES committed by all trans people there is a slightly higher risk of crime compared to the general population.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/criminality

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 11:09

I'm sorry that you were sexually assaulted. I'm puzzled that you haven't joined the dots between men using women as support humans to validate their gender identity, people using women as gamete donors via invasive and risky procedures, men touching women and raping us when they feel like it, and other forms of exploitation of women.

Too late to hit the edit button.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 11:16

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 11:03

have the legal right to use donor eggs

You've conflated a lack of legal impediment to try for a child with a right to a child. They are not the same thing. If no one donates eggs, you don't get to use an egg donor. A right to an egg donor would indicate that you, or the State on your behalf, could compel someone else to supply you with eggs if no one willingly donated. Compare the right to a jury trial: the State compels members of the public to serve as jurors in order to grant the defendant their right to a jury trial. No one (yet, but I don't trust the Scots govt not to try in future) compels egg donation, so receiving donor eggs isn't a right, it's just something you aren't stopped from doing.

I've been sexuality assaulted in women's toilets twice, both times by cis gendered men who simply forced open the door.

They didn't need to force open the door, they opened it the normal way and walked through it. The door to women's loos isn't locked with a key only given to women, except in very rare workplace circumstances.

How do you know they were "cis gendered men"? Gender identity is invisible, so unless they told you or you asked, they could have been non-binary or transwomen.

When men want to rape, they rape, regardless of their gender expression

That's literally the point of gender critical feminism. It doesn't matter if a man calls himself a man, a non-binary, or a transwoman, he's still a member of the sex class that make up 49% of the population but constitute over 95% of sex offenders.

The idea that trans women in 'women's spaces' are any meaningful threat is baseless nonsense.

Isla Bryson. Barbie Kardashian, That TW who was in HMP New Hall for a while and carried out multiple sexual assaults in his first week there, what was his name? Go look at the "It never happens" thread in FWR.

I'm sorry that you were sexually assaulted. I'm puzzled that you haven't joined the dots between men using women as support humans to validate their gender identity, people using women as gamete donors via invasive and risky procedures, and other forms of exploitation of women.

And I'm definitely not a libfem.

Libfems aren't actually feminists.

I asked for credible sources. The fact that you offer up such risible sources makes me disinclined to waste my time debating with you further on this issue.

I knew that they were both cis men because, like most women, I knew my rapists. The gender critical lot fall into the trap of perpetuating the myth that stranger rape is a bigger danger than it is, when the real issue is that the patriarchal system puts us all at risk from the men in our everyday lives.

And please don't explain the circumstances of my own rapes to me.

As for legal rights, I do have the legal right to procure and use donor eggs for IVF treatment. There is not simply a lack of legal impediment, as the circumstances in which I'm permitted to do so are defined by law.

As for libfems, I'm not one, nor am I a fan, so I'm not going to waste my time defending them.

IcakethereforeIam · 08/11/2023 11:18

I wonder if a tw will have a crack at donating some of his eggs?

Sueveneers · 08/11/2023 11:20

https://humanevents.com/2023/05/11/trans-predator-sentenced-to-9-years-for-raping-vulnerable-friend-after-release-from-uk-jail-child-sex-crimes?utm_campaign=64470

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11750379/Violent-trans-pedophile-raped-three-month-old-moved-female-prison-mother-baby-unit.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-65549530

https://reduxx.info/ireland-transgender-male-inmate-in-womens-prison-threatens-to-rape-female-officers/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11777637/Man-sexually-assaulted-woman-toilets-claimed-identified-female.html

https://reduxx.info/uk-transgender-rapist-jailed-for-nine-years-after-sexually-assaulting-vulnerable-woman/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-65610429

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-butcher-admits-abduction-and-sex-assault-of-girl-11-q0xx5j6wj

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/28/essex-schoolgirls-sexually-assaulted-gender-neutral-toilets/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-66052546

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/hunter-womens-shelters-issue-warning-on-violent-trans-sex-offender/wcm/1661f5a2-5797-4c5e-9efb-382db9020372/amp/

Trans predator sentenced to 9 years for raping ‘vulnerable friend’ after release from UK jail for child sex crimes

“Given your previous record of offending, these convictions are particularly serious, given that the victim was your friend and a friend you knew to be vulnerable herself.”

https://humanevents.com/2023/05/11/trans-predator-sentenced-to-9-years-for-raping-vulnerable-friend-after-release-from-uk-jail-child-sex-crimes

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