To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

that doesn't establish causation

I cannot find any evidence to verify the assertion that egg donation causes early menopause

That's unfair. Most who voted SNP did so on the basis of wanting independence, not on a woman-hating, anti-human ticket.

I hope that lots of transwomen will step forward. Usually there is a lot of aggressive posturing about campaigns being targeted at women so I am sure they would like to lend their voices and eggs to this campaign...

Afterall they ARE women, yes?

We were actually misled in many ways. Additionally, we finished up with a coalition government where the Greens tail is wagging the dog.

It's bollox all right, but that's what's happening here - you only need to look at the recent case where community service was deemed a suitable 'punishment' for a rapist. (He even appealed against that and won his appeal on a technicality.)

Yeah, I saw that. Absolutely appalling. That judge was a complete idiot.
That guy deserved to have his life ruined. The judiciary have a long way to go.

That was actually not much to do with the judiciary. The court was bound, as I understand it, by recently introduced sentencing rules that said that young men should be diverted from prison if at all possible.

https://www.scottishsentencingcouncil.org.uk/news/news/sentencing-young-people-guideline-comes-into-effect/

Independence at any cost eh? If I was a Scottish woman I think I'd worry a bit more about what life for women in an independent Scotland might look like.

An article in Unherd about it

https://unherd.com/thepost/why-is-the-scottish-government-targeting-women-for-egg-donation/

I didn't know OHSS was commoner in younger women!

Like Gilead. But with pink hair.

@RudsyFarmer i found this:

“What Supports Misconceptions That IVF Causes Early Menopause?

During the IVF procedure, eggs are retrieved for embryo formation. So, people readily believe the myth that IVF reduces ovarian reserve and leads to early menopause. However, that’s nowhere close to reality.

In reality, during the IVF Procedure, the hormonal activators or injections are used to mature the eggs speedily for a few menstrual cycles, but that does not reduce the number of menstrual cycles.

So, there is no question of Early Menopause due to the IVF procedure.

Let’s Understand The Process Clinically.

In a normal menstrual cycle, the reproductive system in women produces around 10 to 20 egg follicles, out of which one egg matures, and the rest of them are wasted.

During the IVF Treatment, fertility drugs stimulate all the eggs to mature not one but 10 to 15 eggs simultaneously. The number of eggs that leave the body remains identical, so in no way it can lead to Early Menopause.”

I saw your post and, as someone who has undergone four egg retrievals, I panicked a little.

I’m aware there are no long term studies to help me prepare for how this may have affected my body. But I was never told about any correlation between ivf and early menopause. At the time, it was the right choice for me, my children and my family.

I have undergone several surgeries, including brain surgery and the paperwork I had to sign for brain surgery was nothing compared to the stacks of paperwork I did for ivf.

Anyway, I am not comfortable with egg donation or unknown donor sperm or surrogacy. Though if I wanted to be a surrogate for my brother and his wife, for example, then I wouldn’t want anyone stopping me if I had made an informed decision about it.

I think there was a thread on here discussing it and there were various anecdotal stories to the positive and negative. It stands to reason that women having gone through IVF and experiencing an early menopause might attribute it to the IVF when in reality it was a genetic predisposition.

my intention was certainly not to panic you so I apologise for that 💐

As someone who will probably be using donor eggs (although I don't live I Scotland, or indeed the UK,) I'm glad that campaigns like this exist. However much the biological essentialists on this site may wish to wring their hands and rage and despair, reproductive technology and choices will continue to grow and proliferate (as will trans rights, a basically unrelated issue which for some reason is being conflated here, because god forbid there could be a single discussion where it doesn't rear it's head.) Humans have always sought to transcend the limits of our biology, and will continue to do so, whatever spurious arguments a few reactionaries cook up. Twas ever thus.

The suggestion that you can't go through menopause early via the drugs used and the manipulation of your hormones, is absurd. It's common sense and stands to reason that if you are mucking around with womens finely tuned menstrual cylces, eggs and hormones, that you may go through early menopause from it. Mucking around with your system wouldn't be without consequences. That's just plain common sense.

It may appear to be common sense to you, but there's no evidence for it. Are you a reproductive endocrinologist, or jndeed a doctor or research scientist in any relevant discipline?

Also our systems aren't that finely tuned, as their are lots of variations between women (and trans men, and non binary people) in terms of how our reproductive systems operate. Different hormone levels, different cycles, different reproductive and menstrual conditions and issues. Not finely tuned at all.

During the IVF Treatment, fertility drugs stimulate all the eggs to mature not one but 10 to 15 eggs simultaneously. The number of eggs that leave the body remains identical, so in no way it can lead to Early Menopause.”

Not all women having produce that many eggs either. On two of my three cycles one of my ovaries produced no follicles at all and the other about 6 resulting in three eggs. And that was on the maximum possible dose of fertility drugs. I was eventually told I had premature ovarian failure.

My child is my biological/genetic child because we share DNA. If you use a donor egg then you'll be the birth mother, but not bio mum as you won't share DNA.

I'm young and was told I wouldn't be able to conceive naturally. I looked into ivf. Luckily I didn't need it. However, I would never use a donor egg. I think young women shouldn't be allowed to 'donate' eggs because they'll be doing so because they're desperate for money.

It is exactly the same actually.

And egg donation is Not the same as surrogacy

By law, in England at least, you have to be offered counselling.prior and post donation.
All the risks are clearly laid out to you in every appointment.

It was one of the best gynaecological check ups I'd ever had.

I was rejected as a donor on health grounds.

Eggs after the age of 35 decrease in viability, so it would be a waste of the recipients money to use them.
They also have a cut off age of how old you can be to receive a donor egg.

They're giving their children away. Which is fine, I suppose , but they should be fully informed and the doctors/clinics must do due diligence that there's no coercion going on.

Also

Also our systems aren't that finely tuned, as their are lots of variations between women (and trans men, and non binary people) in terms of how our reproductive systems operate.

It would have saved some typing to just put 'women'. Surgery or hair dye doesn't change that. Although wrong sex hormones can really fuck you up.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The biological mother is the one who gives birth to the baby. This is usually the same as the genetic mother, but in the case of egg donation, the biological and genetic mothers are different. A quick google should clear the matter up for you. A lot of people on this thread asserting misinformation as facts without doing 10 seconds of research.

I'm in my 40s, just had a miscarriage and will probably go on to use donor eggs. Very happy to have that possibility, and to be alive in a time where modern medicine has opened up so many options for me, and for other women with reproductive challenges. How other women choose to make money is none of my business, and I'm confident that the system is well managed with safeguards in place.

Many trans men and non binary people have ovaries, uteruses and menstrual cycles. Are you denying that? I thought that fact was kind of the crux of the whole 'gender critical' argument?

Trans men and non-binary? FFS. Please DFO with that bullshit. You don't need to bring your religious ideology into this. If you have a cervix, you're a woman. That's it. Full stop. Regardless of which religious tags you use.