Page 29 | To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

VestaTilley · 2023-11-05T23:43:24+00:00

Yes, really. Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it. Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue. I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result. The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption! AIBU?

PP82 · 08/11/2023 22:55

GailBlancheViola · 08/11/2023 22:53

And you of course are the expert in that aren't you PD82 just like you are an expert in how the behaviour of men will change if we just sling everyone in together. How much collateral damage are you prepared to stomach whilst your Great Experiment takes place? The damage already being done clearly matters not one iota to you so where is your cut off?

The expert in what?

GailBlancheViola · 08/11/2023 22:55

PP82 · 08/11/2023 22:47

I simply don't accept that all people who have autism can't consent to sexual activity or to medical procedures, and find your argument bizarre and infantilising. For a small minority that may be the case, but if they were so profoundly affected they would not be allowed to donate.

My post was in response to the above.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 22:57

PP82 · 08/11/2023 22:47

I simply don't accept that all people who have autism can't consent to sexual activity or to medical procedures, and find your argument bizarre and infantilising. For a small minority that may be the case, but if they were so profoundly affected they would not be allowed to donate.

You read "cock shoved down throat hard enough to induce vomiting" and interpreted that violent abusive act as "sexual activity"? Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Of course autistic people (not "people with autism", it's not a dose of the flu that can be recovered from) can consent to sex. What we, and all other women, cannot consent to, is abuse. Inducing vomiting is not risk-free, if it was, bulimia nervosa wouldn't be a serious illness.

But hey, choosy-choice, if she says "yes" then it's all right, no matter how awful it is.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:01

AuntyMargeAuntyFlora · 08/11/2023 21:46

In the middle of a very tense thread, this really tickled me.
The idea of someone peering through a microscope, wielding a tiny pair of tweezers, going "Shit, I've lost it again!"

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😂😂😂

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:06

PP82 · 08/11/2023 20:23

I don't think saying that a small group of women, who claim to speak for all, get to exclude others from certain environments on the basis of nothing but their 'comfort ' is misogynistic.

If a racist is uncomfortable living next to an immigrant, and mistakenly believes they are more likely to be a rapist (as many racists do believe) does that mean they should be able to exclude them from their community or country? Based just on their feelings.

The number of men who rape strangers is tiny. The number of trans women that do so is miniscule. Women are most at risk in their own homes. This is a distraction.

I wanted to talk about donor eggs

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Once more for the slow of thinking: a person's nationality doesn't make them more or less able or likely to rape, and it doesn't make them more or less able to leave their victim pregnant. A person's sex does affect their ability and likelihood of raping, and does affect whether they can leave their victim pregnant.

Nationality is not comparable to sex. Stop pretending that it is. I debunked this pages ago.

ArthurbellaScott · 08/11/2023 23:07

PP82 · 08/11/2023 22:47

I simply don't accept that all people who have autism can't consent to sexual activity or to medical procedures, and find your argument bizarre and infantilising. For a small minority that may be the case, but if they were so profoundly affected they would not be allowed to donate.

That is the most staggeringly callous reply I've read on here in a long time, and I wondered if you have the slightest idea what you've said, or why it's unacceptable.

ArthurbellaScott · 08/11/2023 23:07

Vito

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:22

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 22:57

You read "cock shoved down throat hard enough to induce vomiting" and interpreted that violent abusive act as "sexual activity"? Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Of course autistic people (not "people with autism", it's not a dose of the flu that can be recovered from) can consent to sex. What we, and all other women, cannot consent to, is abuse. Inducing vomiting is not risk-free, if it was, bulimia nervosa wouldn't be a serious illness.

But hey, choosy-choice, if she says "yes" then it's all right, no matter how awful it is.

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No one can consent to abuse, neurodiverse or otherwise. I don't understand what point you are making.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:23

And obviously I don't think men should shove their cocks down anyone's throat til they vomit, even if some folk claim to enjoy it.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:24

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:25

So that reply got insta-hidden. I wonder why?

I was linking to the Communist Party's view archive.is/lTJQA on biological sex in law and policy, making the point that they agree with us so we are hardly right-wing.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/11/2023 23:29

It's the archive thread I think @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia

user1492757084 · 08/11/2023 23:30

To be promoting surrogacy is off.
Surely it would be better to be offering a low cost service of harvesting and freezing eggs for a woman's own future use That service could decrease the need for sourcing donated eggs if infertility is a problem later in life.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:30

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:25

So that reply got insta-hidden. I wonder why?

I was linking to the Communist Party's view archive.is/lTJQA on biological sex in law and policy, making the point that they agree with us so we are hardly right-wing.

Edited

Ummm, I hardly think citing the Communist Party boosts your progressive credentials. They support Putin.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:33

user1492757084 · 08/11/2023 23:30

To be promoting surrogacy is off.
Surely it would be better to be offering a low cost service of harvesting and freezing eggs for a woman's own future use That service could decrease the need for sourcing donated eggs if infertility is a problem later in life.

That's a good proposal. I wish I'd been able to afford to freeze my eggs.

I'm not opposed to surrogacy but it's very different from egg donation and I don't think the two should be conflated.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:35

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:22

No one can consent to abuse, neurodiverse or otherwise. I don't understand what point you are making.

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I wrote:

I promised more about the reality of disabled people being manipulated.

Can an autistic woman consent to having a cock shoved down her throat so hard that she vomits and has a sore throat for days? Anal sex that leaves her bleeding? Being whipped until she's crying? It was a form of self-prostitution but I was paid in "good girl" and "well done" and "you take my cock so well" instead of money.

Can any woman consent to that treatment? I'd say that some BDSM stuff is beyond what can be consented to by anyone.

You then wrote in reply:

I simply don't accept that all people who have autism can't consent to sexual activity or to medical procedures, and find your argument bizarre and infantilising.

And then you were criticised for using the term "sexual activity" to describe the abuse I described.

And now you are trying to pretend that that's not what you wrote and you have no idea what we are all on about.

Unfortunately for you, what you said is in writing upthread. We see your attempt at gaslighting.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:36

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:30

Ummm, I hardly think citing the Communist Party boosts your progressive credentials. They support Putin.

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Which one? There's two Communist Parties in the UK.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:41

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:35

I wrote:

I promised more about the reality of disabled people being manipulated.

Can an autistic woman consent to having a cock shoved down her throat so hard that she vomits and has a sore throat for days? Anal sex that leaves her bleeding? Being whipped until she's crying? It was a form of self-prostitution but I was paid in "good girl" and "well done" and "you take my cock so well" instead of money.

Can any woman consent to that treatment? I'd say that some BDSM stuff is beyond what can be consented to by anyone.

You then wrote in reply:

I simply don't accept that all people who have autism can't consent to sexual activity or to medical procedures, and find your argument bizarre and infantilising.

And then you were criticised for using the term "sexual activity" to describe the abuse I described.

And now you are trying to pretend that that's not what you wrote and you have no idea what we are all on about.

Unfortunately for you, what you said is in writing upthread. We see your attempt at gaslighting.

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But either everyone can consent to those acts, or no one can. Some people see those acts as acceptable, I personally see them as abuse. I don't see what neurodiversity has to do with it.

WearyAuldWumman · 08/11/2023 23:42

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 22:24

"People with autism"? Really?

I promised more about the reality of disabled people being manipulated.

Can an autistic woman consent to having a cock shoved down her throat so hard that she vomits and has a sore throat for days? Anal sex that leaves her bleeding? Being whipped until she's crying? It was a form of self-prostitution but I was paid in "good girl" and "well done" and "you take my cock so well" instead of money.

Can any woman consent to that treatment? I'd say that some BDSM stuff is beyond what can be consented to by anyone.

And more importantly, what does it say about a man that he would seek out someone to treat that way? I think of him now and I feel sick.

We recognise that "cuckooing" is a crime but we don't extend that reasoning from a disabled person's house to a disabled person's body.

Can you not see how "you're giving someone the gift of a child" and "you're bringing joy to someone" would trigger that same feeling of relief that someone wants you for something? Just as I question the decency of the man who is happy to pound his cock into a woman's throat so that she vomits, I question the decency of someone who would use those eggs. You say you wouldn't exploit someone but you are exploiting them, inherently, because of how egg donation works.

So many autistic women and girls go undiagnosed that I wouldn't trust the fertility clinic's screening to detect them. I don't believe that it's possible for the clinic to guarantee to keep them safe. And I don't trust them to try too hard to do so anyway because their motive is profit. When commissioning parents are the customer, egg donors can only be the product and the clinic won't do anything to reduce supply that isn't legally mandated. And the legally-mandated stuff will be a checkbox exercise.

You don't have a right to a child. You have the right to try to conceive in ways that involve your body only, but you don't have a right to a child.

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You're right. No one has the right to a child.

I think that when you've been desperate to have children, a kind of madness takes over. I'm over it now.

At one point, we considered adopting from Eastern Europe. I'm of Eastern European heritage. At that time, the rules for my heritage country were that you got preference if one parent could prove their heritage and you could speak the language. Further to that, one parent had to be no more than 46 yrs older than the child. At that time, therefore, we could have adopted a 6 yr old.

I remember agonising over my husband's age and wondering whether it was fair. I reasoned to myself that even if the child lost its father at a young age, it would be better than being stuck in an Eastern European orphanage. I made up all sorts of tales in my head as to what a happy life we'd have together, how we'd go on holiday to 'the old country' to keep the child in touch with their heritage...

In the end, I had to admit that it was unfeasible and unfair on any child. I was working full-time and caring for my parents and my husband's health was not the best.

I think I had to go through all the agonising and so on, however, before I regained my sanity.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:44

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:36

Which one? There's two Communist Parties in the UK.

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Like hell do they support Putin. They certainly don't support his war on Ukraine. <a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20220528052443/www.communistparty.org.uk/28626-2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">stop breaking please url

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:46

The CPB, who you linked to.

I should have said that they are apologists for Putin.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:47

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:44

Like hell do they support Putin. They certainly don't support his war on Ukraine. <a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20220528052443/www.communistparty.org.uk/28626-2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">stop breaking please url

Edited

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Your links don't work.

WearyAuldWumman · 08/11/2023 23:48

user1492757084 · 08/11/2023 23:30

To be promoting surrogacy is off.
Surely it would be better to be offering a low cost service of harvesting and freezing eggs for a woman's own future use That service could decrease the need for sourcing donated eggs if infertility is a problem later in life.

I could get behind that. Many young women of my acquaintance are in their 30s before they are able to think about starting a family, so being able to freeze their own eggs at a younger age would be of benefit to them.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 08/11/2023 23:49

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:46

The CPB, who you linked to.

I should have said that they are apologists for Putin.

Britain’s Communists have reiterated their opposition to Russian president Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and urged people to step up the campaign for a ceasefire and a peaceful settlement of the conflict. ‘The working class and peoples of Ukraine, Russia and elsewhere will not be the winners of this war’, Carol Stavris told the Communist Party’s executive committee at the weekend.

The archive link keeps breaking because it's got special characters in it. That's the first paragraph.

PP82 · 08/11/2023 23:51

WearyAuldWumman · 08/11/2023 23:42

You're right. No one has the right to a child.

I think that when you've been desperate to have children, a kind of madness takes over. I'm over it now.

At one point, we considered adopting from Eastern Europe. I'm of Eastern European heritage. At that time, the rules for my heritage country were that you got preference if one parent could prove their heritage and you could speak the language. Further to that, one parent had to be no more than 46 yrs older than the child. At that time, therefore, we could have adopted a 6 yr old.

I remember agonising over my husband's age and wondering whether it was fair. I reasoned to myself that even if the child lost its father at a young age, it would be better than being stuck in an Eastern European orphanage. I made up all sorts of tales in my head as to what a happy life we'd have together, how we'd go on holiday to 'the old country' to keep the child in touch with their heritage...

In the end, I had to admit that it was unfeasible and unfair on any child. I was working full-time and caring for my parents and my husband's health was not the best.

I think I had to go through all the agonising and so on, however, before I regained my sanity.

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But my situation is different from yours and I don't see why my plan to use donor eggs represents any sort of madness.