To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

I'm sorry for what you went through. My husband is younger than me, and we both have siblings and nieces, nephews etc.

My husband and I are both very happy with the donor egg option. We don't believe biology is important, but we are planning to travel to a country where egg donation is not anonymous, in case our child feels differently and wants to know the identity of the donor when they turn 18. We have our view, but it's important to me to respect that they may feel differently.

Individual stalls don't work. I think you said you're not in the UK? You won't know the details of the Dolatowski case, then.

D self-identified as a woman. First use the women's toilets in one supermarket and tried to spy on a 12 yr old.

For the second offence, D used the toilets in a different town and then shoved the 10 yr old victim into one of the cubicles.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/courts/819644/mum-of-supermarket-toilet-sex-assault-victim-warns-freed-attacker-could-strike-again/

I haven't engaged in this argument effectively. It's not one I'm used to having or will ever have again. You haven't persuaded me, I haven't persuaded you. Nor did I believe I would. I stumbled upon this accidentally, and I have no interest in debating these issues with the gender critical. Keep fighting your fight. I only wanted to talk about egg donation.

It seems to me that if you are going to use a donor egg - setting aside other concerns - it's important for the resultant child to be able to know about their background.

It's unlikely to happen with donor eggs, but I've heard of cases in the States where a ridiculous amount of children have been fathered by one sperm donor. Unless you've had medical checks, there's always the possibility of unwitting incest.

We have some adopted family members and it became crucial for one of them to find out his medical history. Thankfully, he was able to do so.

I do have concerns, for example about the fertility industry in India. I've seen reports of impoverished young women there being exploited and selling their eggs for a pittance, with no real safeguards being in place for their health and well-being.

making trans women the problem

I'm not saying they're the problem, among all men. I simply don't believe they're anything other than men.

One thing the guidance mentioned was unforeseen technological advancements wrt DNA etc. It specifically notes that laws change and tech changes and any egg or sperms donor should be aware their identity may be revealed in future.

*Sperm donor, although I expect most men give more than one.

I haven't engaged in this argument effectively.

It's not just you. The trans rights activists have never done so either. Because there is no rational argument for why women's rights should be destroyed on the whims of a small group of entitled, sexist men. Hence hashtag nodebate.

Yes, I would of course never have treatment in such a context. Where I'm planning to go there are lots of safeguards in place.

Or maybe they just don't think that spaces being reserved for people of a particular biological sex constitute women's rights.

Aye, women's rights are for everyone, not just women.

Male trans activists and women who want out of being female are not best placed to decide what's best for women as a sex class.

In the middle of a very tense thread, this really tickled me.
The idea of someone peering through a microscope, wielding a tiny pair of tweezers, going "Shit, I've lost it again!"

Or indeed those whose entitlement is greater than all else. A sort of Verucca Salt foot stamping. 'I SHALL have access to women's eggs / wombs / single sex spaces because I'm allowed it and I want it so there!'

It's almost amusing when they wear a Feminist sticker.

Not only is trans not a type of gay, the trans movement is blatantly homophobic. Look at all the lesbians told their same-sex attraction means they aren't actually women at all, they must be men. Trotting out "homophobes are uncomfortable around gay people" is rich when this movement is just the same thing dressed up and pretending to be progressive.

"People with autism"? Really?

I promised more about the reality of disabled people being manipulated.

Can an autistic woman consent to having a cock shoved down her throat so hard that she vomits and has a sore throat for days? Anal sex that leaves her bleeding? Being whipped until she's crying? It was a form of self-prostitution but I was paid in "good girl" and "well done" and "you take my cock so well" instead of money.

Can any woman consent to that treatment? I'd say that some BDSM stuff is beyond what can be consented to by anyone.

And more importantly, what does it say about a man that he would seek out someone to treat that way? I think of him now and I feel sick.

We recognise that "cuckooing" is a crime but we don't extend that reasoning from a disabled person's house to a disabled person's body.

Can you not see how "you're giving someone the gift of a child" and "you're bringing joy to someone" would trigger that same feeling of relief that someone wants you for something? Just as I question the decency of the man who is happy to pound his cock into a woman's throat so that she vomits, I question the decency of someone who would use those eggs. You say you wouldn't exploit someone but you are exploiting them, inherently, because of how egg donation works.

So many autistic women and girls go undiagnosed that I wouldn't trust the fertility clinic's screening to detect them. I don't believe that it's possible for the clinic to guarantee to keep them safe. And I don't trust them to try too hard to do so anyway because their motive is profit. When commissioning parents are the customer, egg donors can only be the product and the clinic won't do anything to reduce supply that isn't legally mandated. And the legally-mandated stuff will be a checkbox exercise.

You don't have a right to a child. You have the right to try to conceive in ways that involve your body only, but you don't have a right to a child.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia

I'm a white biological woman. I just don't think that either of those things are key to my sense of self

Same here, so why do I keep getting asked on forms for my "gender identity"? I don't "identify as" a woman, I was born one whether I like it or not (hint: I really don't). IRL I really don't want to be out about my negative feelings (gender dysphoria?) towards my female body, so why do these idiots keep asking me to either lie or out myself?

My trumpet playing and STEM degree are far more central to my sense of self. Honestly, I'd love it if my sex was the last thing people saw about me in social settings. Still using the women's loos because, newsflash, that's based on my biology and trying to avoid being raped.

When I have more time, I'd like in FWR to take a long hard look at BDSM. I get that sensory differences mean that some people find mild or even moderate pain pleasurable, but it's on-topic for women's rights advocates to discuss the limits of acceptability when it comes to people hurting each other without being distracted every thirty seconds with choosy-choice "she said yes so what's the problem?" posts.

But I don't have the mental space for that right now.

If I was walking around with a holstered pistol on my belt, you might find that intimidating, no?

For me, a penis is a weapon used to rape. Men keeping it covered is how they best reassure me that they have no intention of using it that way.

I simply don't accept that all people who have autism can't consent to sexual activity or to medical procedures, and find your argument bizarre and infantilising. For a small minority that may be the case, but if they were so profoundly affected they would not be allowed to donate.

I don't believe sex or gender should be on most forms. Why do we have a legal gender? Bizarre. My passport and birth certificate don't state my religious or political beliefs. Why should they state my sex or gender?

It is not women's fucking job to pacify men!

I am not a man's human shield from other men's violence. I am not here to calm men down or make them behave better.

Men's poor behaviour is their problem to solve.

A penis is just a part of human anatomy. Men hit women. Should they have to wear gloves in public?

And you of course are the expert in that aren't you PD82 just like you are an expert in how the behaviour of men will change if we just sling everyone in together. How much collateral damage are you prepared to stomach whilst your Great Experiment takes place? The damage already being done clearly matters not one iota to you so where is your cut off?