To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

Its just that most of us don't think it's important.

The reason that it's important is the reason you can't ask your "trans woman" mates for an egg donation. They're male, and women is the word for an adult female human being, while the word for a male is man/boy. This isn't difficult.

So yes you do think it's important when it suits.

No what is Orwellian is to deny the sex-based oppression of women, and the sex-based needs and rights of women.

You don't address your glaring error that I pointed out at all, instead falling back on the "hearts not pants" emotive appeal.

Men aren't a risk to women just because of what is in their pants, but also their greater height, weight, and strength and their greater willingness as a sex class to use their height, weight, strength, and contents of pants to harm women.

It's not just about what's in someone's pants, but about their whole body and the social conditioning they received and resultant behaviour.

Well said.

Egg donation does not equal surrogacy either - It seems disingenuous to conflate the two. Egg sharing during IVF has long been a common practice, for example.

And the amount of posters spouting factually inaccurate information about women being born with a fixed Humber of eggs...

I recently donated (for training and research as I was over 35 when they were frozen) eggs. I had them frozen 'just in case' as I was dealing with recurrent miscarriage and secondary infertility. In the end, I conceived my second naturally and when the free storage period came to an end offered to donate. They could not be used to help someone else have a child because HEFC guidelines prohibit the use of eggs from women over 35 (37 when frozen). That is what the 18-35 reference means.

I think a lot of genderists are completely unable to grasp the main points of this argument. I don't know whether this poster is genuinely unable to see the absurdity of her own position or she's being disingenuous, but it's quite something.

We should be working towards a world where no one of any gender would be uncomfortable in such a scenario. And indeed I don't believe most people under 50 of any gender would be. But there's still work to be done to break down these taboos. You don't have to personally experience something to be comfortable with it and to provide practical help to someone who needs something as simple as a sanitary product being passed under a door.

No what is Orwellian is to deny the sex-based oppression of women

It's just another DARVO. I think this poster is aware that they are reversing this issue to pretend that her belief that any male can declare themselves to be a woman and we all have to accept it, that she's had for all of five minutes, is the default belief held by most people, as opposed to the scientific and cultural reality of being female.

Male and female bodies are not equal? Wow. Just wow.

No, they aren't! That's why we have sex-segregated sports. Women can't impregnate someone, men can't get pregnant, that right there is a inequality of bodies.

Don't conflate unequal bodies with not deserving the same human rights. All men and women deserve the the same human rights. To make sure that women get theirs, we must be mindful of the physical differences between men and women.

I have no wish to be defined by my biological sex, thank you very much,

Well you are when you require eggs from another woman because you want children and can't produce your own aren't you? If your sex was so irrelevant and inconsequential it wouldn't be a problem would it?

In your world of only gender mattering and biological sex being irrelevant which gender produces the eggs and which gender gets to use them? According to your batshit logic transwomen would be eligible to receive eggs because only gender identity matters.

It is somewhat obtuse of you to be desperate to use another woman's reproductive capacity whilst denying that same woman the respect, equality and choice due to her by dint of her sex.

The selfishness, arrogance and intolerance of the TRA/GI argument is on full show here.

All of this.

Firstly, I have also been sexually assaulted by cis gendered women, though I would not deny that the vast majority of sexual assaults are committed by men.

But that is not due to their greater physical size or strength, although they may obviously utilise that to carry out their attacks. It is because of the whole way our patriarchal society is structured and conditioned, and obsessing about gender segregated spaces will do nothing to change that. Indeed it is a distraction from the real social change that is needed to reduce male sexual violence.

Very true. To be honest I've come to the view they are a man posing as a woman. I cannot believe even the most pro-trans ideological women would post half of the things they've posted.

I'm in my forties and have walked out of venues sooner than use multiple-occupant mixed-sex loos.

I wouldn't want a bloke hearing me pee or change sanpro because I know some blokes get boners from that.

Once again, these spaces are segregated by SEX. S.E.X. Sex. There are no gender-segregated spaces.

And indeed I don't believe most people under 50 of any gender would be.

Then you are even more out of touch than I imagined.

As I've said I would be more than happy to accept a donor egg from a trans man who still had functioning ovaries, and fully support trans women accessing reproductive services to enable them to have a baby without a uterus. Hopefully eventually such women will be able to have a uterus themselves, should they so wish.

Very true. To be honest I've come to the view they are a man posing as a woman. I cannot believe even the most pro-trans ideological women would post half of the things they've posted.

I have come across some very blinkered women who are prepared to throw other women and girls under the bus to pander to trans rights activism, but it's the completely back to front absurdity of some of this person's statements that I find hard to take seriously.

I mean spaces that allow trans women to use women's facilities are gender segregated, not sex segregated. You may not like it, but these exist. Some places segregate according to biological sex. You want more of those, I want less. But gender segregated spaces do currently exist.

"Gender" is a social construct based on sex stereotypes. What is a "gender segregated" space?

Yesterday I had my longed for, naturally conceived child surgically removed from my very real uterus. I'm definitely a biological woman.

And whilst you are waiting for society to change, single-sex spaces like toilets continue to be needed for women to work, socialise, and carry out civic functions like jury service in relative safety. Religious women will continue to need those spaces even after society has changed to reduce menstrual stigma and eliminate rape, because of their religious rules about close contact with and covering themselves around men.

Your female attackers had no way to make you pregnant. Your male ones did. That alone would justify sex segregation of toilets and changing rooms as a form of harm reduction, even if women carried out 50% of sexual assaults instead of less than 5%.

The need for single-sex spaces will never go away.

One which anyone who identifies as a woman can use, regardless of their biological sex or the gender they were assigned at birth.

and fully support trans women accessing reproductive services to enable them to have a baby without a uterus. Hopefully eventually such women will be able to have a uterus themselves, should they so wish.

Pray tell where are they going to get this uterus from?

Notably you have zero consideration for the baby being used as a tool in the above scenario, I am, however unsurprised by that.

No. Because "identifying as a woman" isn't a meaningful definition of "gender". Gender is a social framework based on sex stereotypes. You are talking about "gender identity segregated spaces".

Because gender identity is invisible, anyone can walk into that space and no one can challenge them. This makes the "gender segregation" unenforceable and the space is de facto for anyone to use, including anyone who identifies as a man.