To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

Yesterday I had my longed for, naturally conceived child surgically removed from my very real uterus. I'm definitely a biological woman.

Yes, I believe you. Your absurdity notwithstanding. Maybe have a think about why you needed to say "biological woman" there, and why you feel you can give our word to men.

The risk of getting pregnant does not make a sexual assault and better or worse.

And while I respect religious freedom to a point, society shouldn't be organised around the wishes of those who's interpretation of religion is very conservative. Do you think those who demand women be moved from their seats on aeroplanes to accommodate their religious beliefs should be indulged? Should we in fact have segregated public transport? Certainly lots of sexual assaults happen on buses and trains.

This is all totally batshit. It reminds me of some training course the Scottish government ran that had billions of different ‘genders’. A man has male genitalia and can access Mens spaces, a woman has female genitalia and can access woman’s spaces, and anyone who wants anything different needs to seek urgent help with their mental health.

Come on now, this is a bit silly. No-one owns a word and no-one can give a word to anyone.

I don't believe that the word woman belongs to those who are biologically female. In fact I don't feel attached to the word at all. I want a world where we are not defined or constrained by our biology, and believe that the focus on trans women is a toxic distraction from the real work of dismantling the patriarchy, which is the only way to reduce sexual violence and make women safe.

Actually, risk of pregnancy does make a rape objectively worse than it would have otherwise been. The female rape victim of a male rapist must navigate pregnancy tests and the fear and worry that she will have to navigate pregnancy decisions, abortion access, motherhood, and the inability to conceal her rape from family and community who may judge her harshly. She must navigate all of this on top of STI fears and the psychological and physical injury that any rape victim endures. It's misogyny to discount how much forced conception drives a bulldozer through a woman's life.

Think about this for a moment. If pregnancy wasn't a big deal for women that has a massive effect on our lives, even when caused by consensual sex instead of rape, there wouldn't be: 1) a massive fight in the US against the recent Supreme Court reversal of Roe vs Wade; 2) ongoing legal battles in several states to fight trigger laws; a referendum "Repeal The Eighth" in Ireland to allow for legal abortion; organisations like Women On Waves and Abortion Support Network helping women travel or use mail ordered pills to obtain abortions; a huge global industry selling contraceptives; ongoing legal battles in the US to fight pharmacists refusing to dispense contraceptives.

You cannot claim that contraceptive access and abortion access is a feminist issue and then claim that pregnancy risk doesn't exacerbate the harm done to a rape victim.

The balance of religious accommodation is tricky, I grant that. But when many atheists are demanding single-sex spaces too, it's not an unreasonable accommodation to provide single-sex spaces.

Ask my friends 25 year old daughter this. Her and her friends ask each other to let them know if guys are in the toilets when out in clubs with unisex toilets.

No, but I could ask a trans man for an egg donation. Except I would never ask anyone for one. I will only accept eggs from people who have already willingly donated. Which is how it generally works.

I don't believe that the word woman belongs to those who are biologically female.

I do. It's not a word for males. It's simply the name we give to an adult female human. Like doe is a female deer, and a cock is a male chicken. I don't intend to call males by female names.

No, but I could ask a trans man for an egg donation.

Yes, because they are actually women.

After I was raped I crawled out of bed, shoved a coat over my pyjamas and crossed the road to the pharmacy opposite where I bought a morning after pill. It was an inconvenience but hardly a major part of the trauma.

As for what I reasonable, that is obviously highly contested.

Yesterday I had my longed for, naturally conceived child surgically removed from my very real uterus. I'm definitely a biological woman.

Who seems remarkably ignorant about how the female body works in relation to pregnancy since you posted this : and fully support trans women accessing reproductive services to enable them to have a baby without a uterus. Hopefully eventually such women will be able to have a uterus themselves, should they so wish.

The meaning of language is fluid and changes over time.

I want a world where we are not defined or constrained by our biology

I'm defined by my biology only in that I am female and have certain physical traits.

But we're all constrained by our biology in some ways so this is unrealistic. You need donor eggs. Trans "women" can't ovulate because they are male. People in wheelchairs can't identify their disability away. We all die at some point. Some biological realities are inescapable.

The meaning of language is fluid and changes over time.

It hasn't changed organically. Most people think of women as female. You can't impose these changes on people.

I mean trans women accessing surrogacy services. And uterus transplants for trans women may be possible in the future. Astonishing advances in medical science are happening all the time.

“Language changes over time” is not the same as “language changes at the behest if a cult so words mean their opposite”.

And uterus transplants for trans women may be possible in the future.

Come on. It will be easier to grow a human in a bag than for a man to carry a pregnancy to term in an implanted uterus.

Biologically they may be. But if they ask me to call them a woman and to be treated as such I will do so. Because I believe that is the decent thing to do and that it takes nothing from me. I understand that you feel it does take something from you. I disagree.

Because I believe that is the decent thing to do and that it takes nothing from me. I understand that you feel it does take something from you. I disagree.

You're right. I disagree that pandering to the absurd, sexist beliefs of disordered young people and entitled adult males with a fantasy idea of their "womanhood" is the right thing to do. Especially when it's so harmful to the rights of women and girls.

Maybe. I'm not a doctor. Maybe the bag thing will be possible too. No reason why a baby has to develop inside a human body. We already concieve children in a lab. Why should it end there?

I'd love it in the future if I could receive a synthetic egg, or have one of my own modified, instead of needing a donation, but I'm happy with the donor route til then.

Lucky you. I had to take a bus ten miles two days later, with all the fear that comes from knowing that every hour that passes makes that emergency contraception less likely to work. Sunday buses don't exist in many parts of rural England. Neither do Sunday-opening pharmacies.

Quick access to a pharmacist who is willing to dispense EC and can be trusted not to rat you out to your family is a privilege that many women lack.

I mean trans women accessing surrogacy services. And uterus transplants for trans women may be possible in the future. Astonishing advances in medical science are happening all the time.

Why am I not surprised you support the further exploitation of women's bodies and the use of children as a commodity.

Pity those astonishing advances in medical science have not been put to use in women's health, but no, of course we must prioritise the men who want not the women who need.

Again, I ask where are these uteruses coming from? Buy them from poor women perhaps?

Actually there has often been a concerted political effort to change people's use of language, and that has often been successful in creating a better, fairer and more decent society. Were efforts to make sexist, racist and homophobic language unacceptable wrong because they weren't 'organic?'

And before you say it, I'm not saying woman is an offensive term, just that political efforts to make language more inclusive aren't necessarily bad just because they aren't 'organic.'

If I was past my child bearing years I'd donate. Uteruses don't age, just ovaries. But increasingly in the future organs will be grown in labs.