To tell you the Scottish Govt are targeting 18 year old girls for egg harvesting

[VestaTilley]

Yes, really.

Surrogacy Concern broke the news on Friday night. I can’t actually believe it.

Over a month to come, the Scottish Govt are asking for egg and sperm donors as young as 18 to come forward in a series of targeted ads on social media and the radio. They’ve expanded IVF provision and - in their own words - have a supply and demand issue.

I’d heard of fertility clinics advertising (bad enough in my view) but for a national Govt to do this to women is staggering. Women can die from complications arising from OHSS, which can be caused by egg donation. A British woman died in 2006 as a result.

The ads don’t mention these risks; it’s all “be kind” “do something amazing”. I cannot actually believe a Govt could be this stupid. They’ve only just apologised for forced adoption!

AIBU?

So will you answer the question on Rachel Dolezal (almost all gender ideologists ignore it and don't answer; I wonder why...)?
Or the self-indentifying transwoman who self-identifies as disabled and uses a wheelchair?

If they aren't deliberately drawing your attention to their genitals then you shouldn't be looking at them. That's the basic etiquette of changing rooms. Do you stare at cis women's genitals in such spaces, or would you consider that rude?

They don't need to 'draw attention'. By being naked in a safe single sex space for women and girls, they are drawing attention to themselves by default.

Women and girls sacred safe single sex spaces exist for a reason. Or else why would male vs female facilities exist.

Female genitalia does not pose a threat to me. Male does. And make genitalia clearly does not belong in a female changing room.

Where does your 99% figure come from?

This one, is on common sense. Almost no woman would feel comfortable having a naked male stranger in front of them. That's basic common sense. It's not normal for a woman to want a strange naked male with his penis and testicles in a female-only designated space.

Nope, you're choosing to fixate on them.

I'm not particularly well versed on the history of such facilities but I assumed they were out of a wish to protect 'modesty' and perpetuate gender segregation, both totally outdated concepts. Are single sex schools a progressive concept, existing primarily to prevent sexual assault?

Indecent exposure is when it's done deliberately to intimate or obtain sexual gratification. Not just having a penis that is visible to another person, in a space designated for people to change in.

I don't agree with men in women's spaces, and I don't use mixed sex spaces to change in, so it's all indecent exposure in practice. That is the view of most women in this country. Women in the majority don't want penises in their changing rooms and many other spaces.

I'm not particularly well versed on the history of such facilities

Yes that's clear. You should look at why single sex facilities tend to be promoted in third world countries by all aid agencies. It's for the safety of women and girls. Why is that?

Also this thread is about egg harvesting, an exploitative practice using women's bodies as a commodity. Not the trans issue. There are plenty of threads for that, no?

Common sense is is a term cited by people with no actual evidence. Give me some data. Actual data, not a load of links to the Daily Mail website.

I've had plenty of naked male strangers in front of me, in various personal, social and professional contexts. I was fine with it, as I'm not a pearl clutching Victorian matron.

That is rubbish! It's hard not to notice a male in front of you.

It is SEX segregation, not 'gender'. Womens spaces are based on sex. Our rights are based on sex. Not gender. Womens rights to female only spaces for our safety, dignity and privacy are NOT 'outdated concepts'. You're being absurd. Sex single schools especially for girls give them a single sex-based environment that is needs-focused and where they can learn better away from boys.

Indeed I am here to discuss egg donation, and have no interest in discussing the trans issue on mumsnet, ever. I simply chose, as I always do, to use inclusive language and that was enough to derail the thread.

It seems then you have a lack of boundaries, and were never taught your sex-based rights or allowed to have boundaries. Because your attitude is outdated and harmful. Women have single sex spaces because we NEED them. They are our human rights. Most women who were brought up with healthy boundaries would not be happy with naked male strangers in front of them. That is absolutely not normal.

No, you've been brainwashed to think including males in womens topics, is 'inclusive'. When in reality, it excludes women as a sex class.

I've had plenty of naked male strangers in front of me, in various personal, social and professional contexts. I was fine with it, as I'm not a pearl clutching Victorian matron.

Your view that women should be exposed to naked male bodies with or without their consent is not the norm. If you shame women for being uncomfortable, humiliated or scared by this you are not remotely kind, compassionate, inclusive or progressive.

It seems then you have a lack of boundaries, and were never taught your sex-based rights or allowed to have boundaries. Because your attitude is outdated and harmful. Women have single sex spaces because we NEED them. They are our human rights. Most women who were brought up with healthy boundaries would not be happy with naked male strangers in front of them. That is absolutely not normal.

This. I'm not going to be lectured about what is "inclusive" by women with poor boundaries.

I most certainly am a feminist.

No. In no way are you a feminist.

Jeez! In which social situations do you see a penis? Glad I’m not going to the parties you go to.

I went to a single sex school and strongly disagree. I believe in the future that gender identity will trump biological sex, and that people's right to identity as whatever gender they wish, or indeed as no gender, will be protected and respected. You have the right to fight against this and we'll see what happens. I swore never to discuss this issue on mumsnet, and it's not one I'm particularly invested in, though I wholeheartedly support my my trans fellow humans and consider myself a low key ally.

I was here to argue for the rights of women such as myself, with fertility problems, to be able to access donor egg treatment to build our families.

I believe in the future that gender identity will trump biological sex

It really won't. Biological sex is always going to be critical in many scenarios.

Parties with hot tubs, picnics where people decided to do some impromptu skinny dipping. I think I mixed in much more chilled out circles than the folk here.

I've done skinny dipping with men in the past. The difference is that it was my choice, and it was only particular men, who I trusted at the time. You are saying that women shouldn't be able to choose.

You are brainwashed. A 'feeling' in someone's head will never trump BIOLOGICAL REALITY. Never. You have to be on something to even think that, not even the most batshit transactivists are this far gone that they think a 'belief' can ever over-ride physical reality. It's a pity your need to appease men isn't outweighed by your need and responsibility to be an ally to women. Who are the vulnerable ones. Not a man in a dress.

That said, however, I notice you won't answer my point about Rachel Dolezal. I think there is a reason for that. But it does show your cowardice and your inability to discuss anything in good faith. So answer my question on Rachel Dolezal please.

The girls will go and get a teacher immediately that a boy walks into a girls' toilet. The girls have to wait until the boy starts kicking the cubicle door if the toilet is unisex.