To think class rep is being homophobic?

[fuckedoffandworried]

DC has just started school. Another child in the class has two mums, I’ll call them A and B. We have a class rep who volunteered earlier in the term and collected contact numbers for the other class parents for a WhatsApp group, which is mostly the mums but a few dads too. A and B both do the school run, it’s probably A most days but B is there at least once a week. A and B are both in the WhatsApp group and both reply to messages pretty equally. The class rep is organising two social events and posted about them in the WhatsApp group last week. One for the mums and one for the dads. Most of the dads aren’t in the WhatsApp group, so the class rep asked in there for mums to send over contact numbers for their partners or kids dads so that the dads evening could be organised. A few of the kids in DCs class have divorced parents, so I think the idea is so both parents can be involved with other class parents. The class rep has made a separate WhatsApp group for the mums event and her DH has made one for the dads. They put A in the mums group for the mums event and B in the dads group for the dads event.

B asked if this was a mistake in the main WhatsApp group, and the class rep has come back saying that it’s not a mistake, it’s because she and some of the other mums have agreed it wouldn’t be fair for her and A to both come to the mums event. Most of the mums don’t know each other very well, and they want everyone to be in the same boat and mix with each other. They’re saying no bringing your partner to either the mums or the dads event, so A can’t bring B. The class rep has said she’s put A in the mums group and B in the dads group because she thought B would fit in better with the dads than A. A and B have both said they won’t be going.

AIBU to think this is homophobia and let the class teacher know?

Interesting- so the only people on here are mums? How do you feel about women being on here that aren’t mums? Or what about men being on here? (Although clearly my post was written in the context of school mum groups)

But let’s humour you both. What do I hate about mums groups?

group think
rounding on people who don’t follow the narrative
bullying
to name but a few. And here we are!

Well it might not be plain and obvious to the person who is the class rep.

I’ve been defending the right (and need) to look at various perspectives- do you have an issue with that?

It's really disappointing that the vast majority of parents in the group has gone for "I don't want to get involved and I am looking forward to the event" - the fact they are still going and not calling this out IS siding with the organiser and condoning this discrimination.

I really expected that once some people pointed out how wrong it was, the majority would pipe up in agreement.

It's very disappointing and it would make me think a lot less of them all. It's crazy to think that in 2023 an exchange like that can take place and only four people stand up for the lesbian couple.

Yes, sometimes people who are habitually homophobic don't find it plain and obvious.

But why is that significant?

There's no particular reason why anyone should bend over backwards to explain homophobia to a homophobe. It's sufficient just to point it out. The person who's being homophobic should do the heavy lifting of learning why their behaviour is inappropriate. HTH.

And yet, here you are….

A group of parents buy and wrap small gifts, box of maltesers, bath bombs etc. we have one unwrapped of each item on display… the children come in and chose an item or items and buy the gift for their parent. It raises some funds for the school as items have a small mark up, and children get to choose a gift… the kids absolutely love it

That sounds lovely @T1Dmama

Ok, the role obviously changes from school to school in that case. I’m very familiar with class reps however in all schools I have worked in (7 if anyone is interested) the role of class rep has been to help organize class parties, assemblies, costumes for various productions, fundraising efforts etc. I have genuinely never heard of the class rep being tasked with organizing social events for parents that aren’t linked to any of the above. My own children’s school take no interest in my social activities either which I’m fine with! Aside from anything else it’s not the school’s job to get involved in parents’ social lives?!

In any case, I’d be interested to know whose idea it was to form the two separate WhatsApp groups outside of the original class group - and I suspect here is where the school could argue (reasonably enough IMO) that it is not their responsibility to police what happens in those. The class rep would have taken the contact details of parents from the original group and taken it upon themselves to organize the two other groups - the school are not responsible for that.

I do have an issue with that, yes.

To start, I'm confident that the vast majority of people in 2023 would know that same-sex parents exist and that, in the case of two women, for example, one of them doesn't suddenly become a 'dad'.

I'm also confident that most people in 2023 would not assume that any woman would be 'more comfortable' around men than women because she does not tend to wear skirts or dresses.

Of course, there might be a small cohort of people that are somehow ignorant of the foregoing but the matter has since been raised with the Class Rep, so simple 'ignorance' does not seem likely at this point. Furthermore, even if it truly is a case of pure ignorance, that would not mean that her behavior is (a) not homophobic, and (b) should go unaddressed.

I also can't help but note that you are trying to quietly pivot from a position of denying the homophobia ("Why is the class rep homophobic?") to now apparently acknowledging the homophobia but suggesting that it could possibly be born of ignorance rather than malice (as if that somehow solves the issue).

Your detour along the path of 'well the woman should be happy to be the victim of discrimination because I personally don't enjoy being in mum's groups' was pretty gross, too, showing both an absence of empathy and a propensity to downplay the harms of discriminatory behavior (in a manner that went beyond questioning whether-or-not it was intentional).

You’re basically creating your own narrative now as to what I’m saying. It’s pointless trying to converse with you. You have fixed ideas, irrespective of what is actually being said. Good night

Your response doesn’t make any sense in the context of my post

Made sense to me.

Off you pop then, I thought it was a bit past your bedtime.

Well, you’re quite the martyr to ‘fucking hate’ Mum groups, to find the sort of behaviour you hate being displayed on here, and yet continue to come on here, spend time, post and engage with people you purport to hate.

All quite strange behaviour, to be honest.

I like women, I like the friends I’ve made through school (Mums of other kids), and (for the most part) I enjoy wasting time on here, because the people who come on here - while certainly not exclusively Mums, they definitely are predominantly Mums - are funny, entertaining, clever, and quite happy to agree and disagree on matters.

I’m sorry your experience of women has been so disappointing for you. But well done you on continuing to hang around us and spend time with us, albeit virtually, on here.

I am specifically referencing, from your earlier posts:

"Why is the class rep homophobic?"

"TBH I fucking hate mums groups anyway. I’d much rather hang with the dads, mums groups are like being back at school. Generally a bunch of women desperate to be friends with the “in” mum(s), it’s fucking depressing . I find school mums groups fucking awful, usually shit boring conversation if I was one of the mums in question I’d be fighting with my partner to go to the blokes event."

"I used to hate this shit expectation of mums grouping together v men grouping together. The dads in primary were infinitely more fun and sociable than the women in the groups. The mums groups tended to be avoided by anyone who wanted a conversation beyond what happened in their own school time. Personally I’d be so happy to be B in this situation!"

I’m glad A & B have a few parents backing them..
I hope other people realise how wrong this is.
it is disgraceful that a whole group of mums feel this is ok, or just not their problem!

I would 100% have to arrange a separate get together for the 6 of you!

@fuckedoffandworried is the class rep a popular, influential sort of person? That could be why people "don't want to get involved".

I can understand to an extent, they will be putting their children first because keeping in with the crowd is important for their own children getting invites, themselves as parents keeping updated etc. It's cowardly though.

Absolutely sucks for the homophobia victims. I think they have grounds for a lawsuit if the school won't intervene.

They weren't realistically trying to balance different requests, though. The only reason given was that mothers who didn't know anyone else in the group would somehow feel left out if there were partners. Manifestly stopping just one gay couple together wouldn't make them feel one iota better, if they even knew about it; it would be more logical to ban people known to be friends with each other from attending together. The fact that this woman came up with such a weak excuse demonstrates that homophobia had much more to do with her decision, particularly given that she has a known history of similar conduct.

Deliberately saying that one woman must be on her own in a group of fathers purely because she is gay simply cannot be accounted for by being ignorant of how to be inclusive. No-one in their right mind would ever suggest that excluding a gay person is inclusive. If the rep really thought B might prefer that arrangement, why not just ask her rather than make assumptions? The fact that you too are so demonstrably clutching at tiny little straws does rather suggest a high degree of kinship with the views of the rep.

The trouble is, once a teacher gets involved in appointing class reps, it will make the school vicariously liable for what the rep does because they have put her in the position that enabled it and they are impliedly authorising it - especially if they allow unlawful conduct to continue once they've become aware of it.

Even after it was pointed out to her by other parents? How and why?

From one of the OP’s later posts, it does sound as though this is a PTA matter and not a school one. If that’s the case then I think it’s unlikely any liability would attach to the school.

That is the reason I voted YABU.

At best it’s an issue for the head teacher, still not the class teacher. While yes, the communication to parents regarding appointing a class rep would have come for the class teacher, it’s a directive from
higher up. I still maintain that the decision to organise a parents’ social was more than likely made by the class rep themselves- I just can’t imagine (nor have I ever heard of) a class teacher asking a class rep to organize a parents social. Furthermore if the class rep has taken contact details from the class group and then themselves made two further groups then that’s not the fault of the school. You would hope, however, that the school were sensible enough to tell all the class reps what is an isn’t acceptable within the role - setting clear boundaries. If they didn’t then that‘s very muddy ground for them.

Anyway I maintain my original point that this is absolutely not something for the class teacher to sort out.

If you google ‘class representative duties school UK’ or similar, which turns up a mix of general and school-specific websites, you’ll see that most of them list arranging social events among the parents as part of the role.

Unless the school or PTA specifically set up the main WhatsApp group (which seems very highly unlikely) and had a specific policy against setting up subgroups, then I don’t see any particular issue (in principle) with a Class Rep setting up subgroups.