To think someone must be able to do something - part 3

[PurpleLampShades]

I never thought I’d be needing to start a third thread but here we are. The first two threads have been a great source of support for me so I’m going to carry on.

First Thread
Second Thread

Long story short - DS (17) has been in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started when he was 15, though I have no proof as they deny it. This has been going on since at least March 2022. SS, the police and the DSL at his college have all been involved and things from that front have been pretty much exhausted. He has been on CIN and early intervention plans, been visited/spoken to by the police, offered workshops, counselling, contact centre etc. The main stumbling blocks are DS’s refusal/inability to recognise the abusive and toxic situation he is in and the resulting refusal to engage with services to extract him from it.
She is abusive, manipulative and extremely controlling. She has isolated him almost entirely from friends, family and hobbies. She is destroying his self esteem, confidence and self-worth. She controls his phone, who he speaks to, where he goes, what he does. I know she has slapped him around the face more than once and was seen to put her hand around his throat while they were kissing once. I don’t know if there are other incidents like that. The remaining protective factor is that he is still managing to attend college, although attendance is a bit of a concern.

I am at the point of not really knowing what to do now. I feel like I’ve lost him.

@jhy

I would suggest that you actually read the whole two previous threads and this one before you spout off with your hectoring of Purple. She has done everything legally possible to try and get her son home and you would know this if you had read her reality rather than yapping at her like an ignoramus.
This isn't helping the OP or her mental health which I'm sure that you must realise is very low at the moment. By the way snatching people off the street is actually illegal and even if she did do that then what? Lock him in a room and deprive him of liberty until he sees sense? I'm sure Purple has thought about it many times but your opinions are not helpful here. I would suggest that you read TFT but perhaps you should just jog on.

@PurpleLampShadesI hope that ignorant post didn't upset you any more than you clearly already are.

Re: Clare's law - if there is any previous history it will add to the case. It might be the difference in her being questioned by the police in connection with his injuries (I don't know enough to know whether they would have run their own checks). I know it must feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall and I know it's horrible to have to keep relaying stuff to people, getting hopes up for seemingly nothing and feeling like you're wasting everyone's time (you're not). I know too it can feel like a torturous, pointless exercise when all you hear is there is STILL nothing anyone can do, BUT, if these injuries are caused by her, then the stakes are massively raised. Any and every bit of evidence will help bring her down. I can't honestly say I've had any dealings with a PI at all, but it might be worth chatting to a few reputable ones, to get their take? And seek legal advice too (you should get a free hour I would hope) - they may have an opinion on whether a PI would be of benefit and how to find one. I guess I'd be hoping a PI would be able to gather evidence/witness things we're not able to. It does feel a terrible intrusion on your son and I can see why you might be reluctant, but I'd encourage you to explore it thoroughly and legally, before discounting it as an option. I hope too it may help you to feel like there is still something you can do?

Re: the late night calls - I wonder if he waits until she is asleep. Just awful for you.

This is great advice

Oh purple this is heartbreaking. You must be at your limits (as if you weren’t before)

Who is looking after you? Do you have friends and family who know what’s going on and are there for you IRL to listen and cry with you?

I don’t see how a PI is helpful.

I do wonder though if you could try and see him face to face again as that seemed to be your previous best connection when he showed some of his pain and distress even if he then backed out again. Would stalking the house a bit to see when he is alone work? Presume they are both working so must have some time apart?

When he phones you does she make it clear she is present? It’s good he is at least in contact in some capacity even if she’s puppeting it.

I fully agree with doing what you can to tie his money up until he is 25. A solicitor can help with that hopefully. That seems crucial to prevent her taking it all.

I also think the fact he is in some way in touch with his friends however vague or infrequent is important so I’d be wanting them to reiterate to him that you are there and ready to see him or talk or for him
to come home in any capacity at anytime. You could ask them to say that to him only when she is not listening. It’s gutting he’s left college although not surprising I suppose sadly.

And re the police and SS. I would definitely do whatever you can to insist there is something on his records. Someone needs to be connecting the dots when he presents with injuries. He may just open up to an IDVA at the hospital if they talk to him. Anything to try and show him he’s being abused and there is help to support him. If there is a flag that points to him being a previous vulnerable child (he was briefly on a CIN plan wasn’t he?) that will also help.

I’m glad you updated even if it’s all sad and feels hopeless. I’m remain totally convinced there is a way out for him and this will all one day be a bad memory.

Massive hugs. 🌺🌺🌺

Dear Purple,
I have nothing constructive to add, sadly, although I do think that hiring a PI is something to consider but I just wanted to give you a huge hug and to say how sorry I am that both you and your son have found yourselves in this very difficult situation. I really fo hope that, somehow, it resolves itself soon. You are an incredible person and it's very clear how much you love your son. He will always know that, however far down he's had to repress that for the moment, and I'm absolutely sure that one day you will get him back. I find it staggering how cruel people can be and how manipulative this awful woman is being. Please stay strong, I (& the whole of MN) have do much respect for you & just want the very best outcome for you both.

Out of all the MN posts/threads I've ever read over the years, this is the one that's struck the hardest & has affected me the most. Sending you and your son love & hope. Please look after yourself too xxx

So sorry to read your update, @PurpleLampShades . It's truly awful, and quite shocking that someone can manipulate a young person in this way and that there's nothing that can be done to stop it.

I hope your son understands that he can come back if/when he ever wants to get out of this situation, he can come back home and be supported and that there will be no blame or anything.

That someone can exercise this degree of control and coercion over someone who is not yet an adult is shocking.

I don’t see how a PI is helpful

To get evidence of abuse?

Re: the late night calls - I wonder if he waits until she is asleep. Just awful for you.

I was thinking the same thing.

Potentially also when she’s out / when he might be alone.

Yes - to establish her (and his) patterns. And things like security, do they have a ring doorbell etc. Also to find out if she has form: has she done this before to somebody else, as that would be useful evidence.

Yes, all this. Where she works and does she have family nearby etc.

But that kind of info a PI could get won’t make purple any more concerned than she already is. She’s his mum, she already knows the situation he is in is worrying. Finding the gfriends’ place of work or family won’t help her in any real way.

It also won’t be useful as any form of ‘evidence’ whilst her son is refusing help and denying her abuse. It won’t stand up in any prosecution unless a PI got really good camera evidence of the gf openly physically assaulting him (very unlikely). Paid evidence can be easily ripped apart in a case as being set up or fabricated.

It is also extremely expensive and should Purple’s son find out she has paid a PI to watch him it could cause a further rift.

I personally think purple is better repeatedly highlighting her concerns to the authorities, discussing with a solicitor and doing the best she can to see her son alone and encourage his friends to stay in touch and keep her informed.

I’d have agreed with absolutely all of that until the most recent update. He’s being coercively controlled and very likely physically abused. He’s almost entirely isolated from family and friends. I think knowledge, within reason, is power. Specifically, when he’s alone, and his mum might have a chance to make contact.

I do not believe there’s a way that she could be any more worried than she already is.

also, I absolutely agree that she should keep raising this with authorities, but to be honest that has got her very little. So while she should continue to do it, I don’t think it’s likely to have very much impact.

I am so sorry Purple. I have followed this under many names and am sad it’s still ongoing.

I think his friends are key. I get that teenagers can be very self centred and might not realise how important it is to put in the effort with him and may have already written him off. Are you in contact with any of their parents so you can speak with them so they understand the severity of the situation and perhaps can encourage their children to get in contact with your DS and reinforce how important it is not to give up on him?

I'll say it again. He needs a DASH assessment and a referral to MARAC due to the escalating violence and his vulnerability.

The problem is he'll have to disclose them things and answer the DASH questions truthfully - it's unlikely he would with how it's panned out so far.

Right. I know this is going to sound blunt. But, get your relatives/friends gathered. Wait until she's gone out - and rescue him!!! There is no other way, from as far as I can see, that you are ever going to get him away from her, considering the state of mind he is in...and because what that woman has done to him.

And...I hasten to add: I have been there...

So sorry to read your update.
I believe that you can ask the police to do a safe and well check (think that's what it's called) if you go for too long without seeing him. I'd also email his gp practice to inform them you suspect he is being abused (If you haven't already, I know you've done so much.) They can't discuss him with you but you can provide background information in case he gets hurt again.

In between all this I hope you are managing to take care of yourself and that you have other people in real life to support you.

I have wondered before if it might help your son to read through all these threads himself, so he can see what he's put you through. It might help the penny drop.

He isn’t in the space where he would accept this. Purple can’t just physically force him away much as I’m sure she would love to.

Purple I hope you are still here and know we are all just trying to think of any way to help or support but I know you must have been through all these scenarios a million times.

I do think seeing him alone however you can manage it is key to finding a chink in his armour. Keep popping round and waiting to see if she goes out.

I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, I have children a similar age. I think at this point, If I suspected she was causing these injuries, I would go there, and speak to both of them at the same time, tell them both that you suspect she is hurting him and are doing everything in your power to stop this, and you fear for his life. Who knows, it may be enough to give him a wake up call, and scare her into curbing the violence.
I don't see how it could make relations worse, and then at least he will know that you are aware of what she is doing and are trying to stop it.
But whatever you do, I hope this horrible situation ends for you both.

One other thing- have you thought about knocking on neighbours doors when she's not there, to see if they have seen/heard any violence? Maybe you could get them on side

Another thought - is there any way at all that you can find out which company she works for? I remember you saying they met through the sister of one of his friends, so it's worth trying to find out via them or could the football mum help? is she on LinkedIn? If you can find out who her employer is, I'd contact them to explain the situation and stress that he is still legally a child.

I have wondered before if it might help your son to read through all these threads himself, so he can see what he's put you through. It might help the penny drop.

That's an excellent idea!