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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

For not wanting to give daughter cultural name

330 replies

Sia2822 · 31/10/2023 12:58

Hello
I am irish living in the UK (my parents are both Irish and we moved here when I was 2) My partner is Tongan in the pacific islands born in New Zealand in to the Māori culture.

Our first child (a son) was named a Māori name as he wanted and we went through all the names and compromised on one.

I really want to call our daughter Orla which is an Irish name, I don’t just want to call her Orla because it’s an Irish name, I want to use it because I’ve always loved that name and said I’d call future child it. If he doesn’t like that name (which he says he doesn’t) then I have 20 or so other options I like but he just says he doesn’t like them all. He doesn’t even think after I say the name, it’s just an instant no. I’ve asked him to find some baby girl names he likes and he made a list but they’re all Māori names and to be honest I don’t like them. He’s asked me to find a Māori girls name that I do like and although I’m sure there is a few I will like, I want to choose a name I truly want this time not be restricted to a certain culture of names.

Ive told partner that baby may be half tongan but she is also half Irish so it shouldn’t matter if she’s named a Māori name or not, his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”. I’ve suggested a Māori name as a middle name but he’s having none of it. Says baby needs a Māori name and that if she has an Irish or English name his family will feel hugely disrespected and that it’s important baby holds her culture in her name.

AIBU for not wanting to choose a cultural name this time?

OP posts:
Redpaisley · 31/10/2023 13:50

Sia2822 · 31/10/2023 12:58

Hello
I am irish living in the UK (my parents are both Irish and we moved here when I was 2) My partner is Tongan in the pacific islands born in New Zealand in to the Māori culture.

Our first child (a son) was named a Māori name as he wanted and we went through all the names and compromised on one.

I really want to call our daughter Orla which is an Irish name, I don’t just want to call her Orla because it’s an Irish name, I want to use it because I’ve always loved that name and said I’d call future child it. If he doesn’t like that name (which he says he doesn’t) then I have 20 or so other options I like but he just says he doesn’t like them all. He doesn’t even think after I say the name, it’s just an instant no. I’ve asked him to find some baby girl names he likes and he made a list but they’re all Māori names and to be honest I don’t like them. He’s asked me to find a Māori girls name that I do like and although I’m sure there is a few I will like, I want to choose a name I truly want this time not be restricted to a certain culture of names.

Ive told partner that baby may be half tongan but she is also half Irish so it shouldn’t matter if she’s named a Māori name or not, his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”. I’ve suggested a Māori name as a middle name but he’s having none of it. Says baby needs a Māori name and that if she has an Irish or English name his family will feel hugely disrespected and that it’s important baby holds her culture in her name.

AIBU for not wanting to choose a cultural name this time?

Irish and English have no culture. How racist of him.

If his culture is so supreme and selecting name for one of the children from mother's culture is such disrespect to his family, then he should have found a wife from his own culture.

He got to choose name of the 1st child, as a mother you should be free to choose name for 2nd child from your culture without the need to appease his cultural family.

AffIt · 31/10/2023 13:52

I'm Scottish, but have a large multi-generational branch of family in New Zealand / Aotearoa.

One of my cousins (third generation of Scottish descent) is married to a man of Maori origin and their kids have two names: their 'day to day' names (think Josh, Chris etc, which are probably more indicative of their Scottish / European heritage) and their 'formal' Maori names (which are very long and utterly wonderful!).

They use a mixture of both on legal documentation.

Would this be a compromise?

loreau · 31/10/2023 13:52

Have you noticed that in his mind it is a problem that his family will feel disrespected but he is more than happy to disrespect you and your culture in the gravest possible way by denying its existence?

That shows where you are in the pecking order - nowhere. I agree that you have bigger problems than baby names. Are you really going to be able to have a happy future if that's his attitude?

Nicole1111 · 31/10/2023 13:52

Given your first child has a Māori name I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable that your second child has an Irish name. It sounds very much like he has a great sense of self importance about himself and his culture, which is quite frankly appalling for the father of two mixed culture children. I also very much doubt he’d tolerate you speaking about his culture in the same way.
I’d be reading him the riot act at this point about his approach to respect in your relationship and respect for his children’s mixed culture heritage

Redpaisley · 31/10/2023 13:53

cheezncrackers · 31/10/2023 13:04

Naming can be a minefield when you come from different cultures. My DH comes from a culture where the eldest son is very often named after the father. I never wanted two people in my house with the same name, but he was so insistent that eventually I caved on the understanding that DS was always known by a nickname that is totally different. DH always said I could name DC2, but when it came to it he hated all the names I came up with (of course, I'd had no say at all on our first DC's name and pointed this out to him), but in the end we found a name that we could both agree on. It was really annoying tbh. Compromise is needed on both sides and it sounds like your DH isn't doing very much!

Why did you cave in when it was your turn?

JudgeJ · 31/10/2023 13:53

Zanatdy · 31/10/2023 13:01

He’s being unfair, we did one each with my ex partner and I - Welsh name for DS, Arabic name for DD

Another person using the culture card to get their own way, why does it always seem that one culture trumps another? If you have one Maori-named child then an Irish one seems fair.

CurlewKate · 31/10/2023 13:53

I am perfectly prepared to accept that he is a dick. But how many people on here have tried to preserve a culture while living long term in another culture? (Sorry, that's clumsy phrasing)

Goodornot · 31/10/2023 13:53

I don't understand why anyone would choose to make their home in a country they feel has no culture and choose a woman of the culture less country to have children with

Why didn't he stay in NZ or Tonga?

Climbingthehillfast · 31/10/2023 13:55

Just googled Māori names - I’d say use it as middle name only

Redpaisley · 31/10/2023 13:55

growgrowinggrown · 31/10/2023 13:06

I know it's too late now but surely this should have been discussed prior?

If you really like Orla and are choosing it because it's a favourite, and not to represent your irish heritage, why don't you use that for a middle name?

You never said what your DS name is, but I think having 2 massively different names for siblings is a little weird.

I had a friend called peter who's little sister was called Starynight Avalea and it always jarred for some reason.

So she should cave in to bully? Let her choose what name she wants for whatever reason. He got to choose one time already.

Zoreos · 31/10/2023 13:55

So it’s okay for you to be respected but not his family? I’d be telling him in the most disrespectful way to go and fuck himself and register your name of choice and there’s nothing he can do about it. This is assuming you’re unmarried. What an utterly disgraceful attitude towards both yours and your child’s albeit half nationality. He says the English have no culture which is not only false but he completely disregards the fact that you’re not even English, you’re Irish. Which are two separate nations altogether. How rude and ignorant. I would flatly refuse any Māori name of any form for my child if this is indicative of the kind of racist, misogynistic attitude his culture endorses.

User1002 · 31/10/2023 13:58

He's not Maori though he's Tongan. So why doesn't he choose a Tongan name?
I say you carried the baby you choose the name. I chose both my kids names and my husband chose the middle names.
I'm from nz (living in Australia) and the Maori names I like are Aroha or Aria. 🙂

Leah5678 · 31/10/2023 13:58

Yanbu tell him your family will feel hugely disrespected if the child dosent have an Irish name. Why does he think his family is more important than yours? Also orla is a beautiful name

Leah5678 · 31/10/2023 14:02

Goodornot · 31/10/2023 13:53

I don't understand why anyone would choose to make their home in a country they feel has no culture and choose a woman of the culture less country to have children with

Why didn't he stay in NZ or Tonga?

This is also a really good point. If he feels this strongly about his culture he should never have moved here and he should of married a Maori woman. Can't backtrack now

ColleenDonaghy · 31/10/2023 14:03

That is a grossly offensive thing for him to say, it would change my view of him tbh. Are you ok aside from the name?

I think giving her a middle name from his culture is fair - she won't have many ties and will be physically distanced from it. But definitely doesn't need to be a first name.

But clearly the first name needs to be the most Irish of Irish names now. Make him long for Orla. Caoilfhionn? Sadhbh? Caoimhe? Grin

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 31/10/2023 14:03

(A) the child is not fully Maori, she's half Maori so his relatives don't get to feel disrespected without causing disrespect

(B) if he'd wanted fully Maori children, he should have married within his culture

(C) you're extremely lucky to have one boy and one girl. There's no way any reasonable person doesn't see that "one each" is the only palatable compromise (and he even got to choose the boy's name - as in, father + son, mother + daughter)

I suspect your DH has bigger issues around losing or watering down his culture and is wanting to hold on tight as much as he can. That ship has sailed, though. I have never had to put my foot down about anything in my marriage, but this is an example of where I would because he is entirely unreasonable in what he's saying. There's no way he can justify his stance.

easylikeasundaymorn · 31/10/2023 14:03

but you would be choosing a cultural name, just not his culture!
Really arrogant/ignorant of him to announce that UK/Ireland have no culture

3peassuit · 31/10/2023 14:03

What a shocking thing for him to believe and say. I’d be rethinking more than the name if I were in your shoes. No culture indeed!

hangsangwitch · 31/10/2023 14:04

Ireland has no culture?!? How rude and stupid of him to say such a thing. Can he name all the world famous Maori writers, artists and musicians? How dare he undermine your culture while banging on about his own.

You are the one creating this child. It is you who will birth her. You decide the name. The name Orla means Princess in old Irish and is an ancient and beautiful name. Your husband sounds like a bit of a bully and a dickhead tbh.

Goodornot · 31/10/2023 14:04

ColleenDonaghy · 31/10/2023 14:03

That is a grossly offensive thing for him to say, it would change my view of him tbh. Are you ok aside from the name?

I think giving her a middle name from his culture is fair - she won't have many ties and will be physically distanced from it. But definitely doesn't need to be a first name.

But clearly the first name needs to be the most Irish of Irish names now. Make him long for Orla. Caoilfhionn? Sadhbh? Caoimhe? Grin

I vote for Sadhbh

Redpaisley · 31/10/2023 14:04

CurlewKate · 31/10/2023 13:31

As an addition to my previous post- the children in my family have a hyphenated last name. So Tongan British Tongan-British.

Considering he got to choose first child's name and is so disrespectful to Op's culture and family, there is no further need to appease him.

Your family member must've chosen the name considering both sides. This man thinks he and his family are more important and his culture is superior to Op's.

JustAMinutePleass · 31/10/2023 14:05

In Maori culture names are important. It’s how your children will be accepted into Maori culture. That doesn’t matter so much with Irish culture. You also need to remember your kids will be mixed race - they will want to, eventually, find connections with the Maori part of themselves and that can only happen meaningfully if they have a Maori name.

By all means give your kids Irish middle names but you absolutely need to recognise that they aren’t white, will look very different to white or even poc Irish people, and won’t see themselves as Irish. My cousin married an Irish man who insisted on Irish names for his half-Indian daughters - all four of them are dark skinned and his Irish family have rejected them. They have no connections to Ireland at all and their Irish names mean they immediately get marked out as different with Indian friends and family who do want to include them.

This is a complex issue and one, tbh, you should have discussed before having kids.

Psychodancehall · 31/10/2023 14:06

All those saying his culture is rarer and under threat - yeah fair point but the Irish language and Celtic culture was deliberately repressed for hundreds of years. He can bugger off with his Oppression Olympics.
And England has many different cultures ! All very interesting! Ignorant so 'n'so(no offence OP)
Orla is a gorgeous name.
Stand your ground ! From a fellow Celt(Scot with Irish ancestry)x

ChocolateCinderToffee · 31/10/2023 14:06

I once read a description of Ireland as having the most distinctive and unrecognised culture in Europe. Your partner's attitude is . . . weird.

Redpaisley · 31/10/2023 14:07

JustAMinutePleass · 31/10/2023 14:05

In Maori culture names are important. It’s how your children will be accepted into Maori culture. That doesn’t matter so much with Irish culture. You also need to remember your kids will be mixed race - they will want to, eventually, find connections with the Maori part of themselves and that can only happen meaningfully if they have a Maori name.

By all means give your kids Irish middle names but you absolutely need to recognise that they aren’t white, will look very different to white or even poc Irish people, and won’t see themselves as Irish. My cousin married an Irish man who insisted on Irish names for his half-Indian daughters - all four of them are dark skinned and his Irish family have rejected them. They have no connections to Ireland at all and their Irish names mean they immediately get marked out as different with Indian friends and family who do want to include them.

This is a complex issue and one, tbh, you should have discussed before having kids.

If they won't accept kids in their culture because of their names, it's not Op's problem.