For not wanting to give daughter cultural name

[Sia2822]

Hello
I am irish living in the UK (my parents are both Irish and we moved here when I was 2) My partner is Tongan in the pacific islands born in New Zealand in to the Māori culture.

Our first child (a son) was named a Māori name as he wanted and we went through all the names and compromised on one.

I really want to call our daughter Orla which is an Irish name, I don’t just want to call her Orla because it’s an Irish name, I want to use it because I’ve always loved that name and said I’d call future child it. If he doesn’t like that name (which he says he doesn’t) then I have 20 or so other options I like but he just says he doesn’t like them all. He doesn’t even think after I say the name, it’s just an instant no. I’ve asked him to find some baby girl names he likes and he made a list but they’re all Māori names and to be honest I don’t like them. He’s asked me to find a Māori girls name that I do like and although I’m sure there is a few I will like, I want to choose a name I truly want this time not be restricted to a certain culture of names.

Ive told partner that baby may be half tongan but she is also half Irish so it shouldn’t matter if she’s named a Māori name or not, his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”. I’ve suggested a Māori name as a middle name but he’s having none of it. Says baby needs a Māori name and that if she has an Irish or English name his family will feel hugely disrespected and that it’s important baby holds her culture in her name.

AIBU for not wanting to choose a cultural name this time?

Well that is toxic AF. how unhealthy

First child has a name from his culture, second child has a name from your culture. His family can grow up or fuck off.

My concern here is not the name per se here but the fact he is dominating your marriage saying his choice or nothing. That is not normal. Decisions re names and children is a joint decision which may have to involve compromise. You gave him first choice the first time but second time it is yours and quite frankly you get casting vote. Please don’t be bullied into something you don’t want as you will resent it later on. Use the name you want

The father wanting the mother's culture to be completely ignored in favour of his own is toxic and unhealthy though.

Sometimes the only way to get through to men like this is to remind them that since he's not married to the baby's mother, only she can register the birth and so she can actually choose any name she likes.

Name her on your own

I completely understand why he’d want his children to have a name that belongs to his culture l, but the fact that he cannot open his mind like you’ve opened yours… red flag 🚩
My partner was desperate to have our son be named after him, like exactly the same name and I compromised and said he could have his first name as our sons middle name but he will have his own first name. He is his own person and I wanted him to have his own name. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve allowed my children to be given his surname with no mention of mine so I picked all our children’s first names, with him picking the middle name for 2 out of 3 children.
He honestly cannot expect you to just drown out your own culture in favour of his? He needs to give his head a wobble, his culture is not more important than yours. You are both equals, and your children will be a part of both of you.

So he himself isnt of a specific culture but a mash of his mum and dad's whereas both your parents are Irish so in fact your kids are half Irish and qtr tongan and qtr maori? Your kids have more claim to Irish heritage than anything. So he was disrespectful to his tongan culture by giving your son a maori name but wants to follow tongan culture with circumcision? So he actually doesn't care about a specific heritage just as long as it's one of his parents that he picks and chooses from. He's using this to be controlling and to stamp his authority. If he was so bothered he wouldn't have moved

My husband is Arabic Hispanic, I’m Western. Our first born was given a family name from the Arabic side and a Western middle name. Our second born was given a culturally neutral name with an Arabic middle name. We both had input, veto power and ultimately compromised. The goal was to honor and respect all our cultures and neither of us felt that disrespected the other. Your partner is the one being disrespectful. I would honestly take a stand on this. Don’t compromise your worth. Your children should know and be proud of all their backgrounds.

They have his surname? Well all bets are off. You get to choose. Why should he name both kids and get to give his surname? Stick to your guns and keep the name. Does he not give you any Leigh way after seeing you go through childbirth?

Cutting your boy at that age along with a ceremony would surely be traumatizing. Times need to move on, even with specific cultures. Name sounds beautiful. I'd go for the Irish spelling 😉

Why on Earth would he not be on the birth certificate? Not being married means diddly squat.

The red flags come from the reasons he's given you. I'd consider if he had said "my culture is very important to me, as yours is to you. But I really worry that with the cultural and physical distance they will struggle more to remain connected to their Maori culture than to their Irish culture. Could we please consider Orla as a middle name that gets used day to day?" The dismissing your culture and your own values is the real problem.

Bracketing the marriage problem, the inter cultural couples I know go for names that work in both cultures. Of half UK culture kids, I know a little Alexander (russian), Kai (Japanese), multiple Leilas (Arabic), Anna (Italian). I understand that these two cultures might have no overlap, but if you do want to find a genuine compromise I would suggest both coming up with as many names from both cultures as you can, or even ones that sound similar, and seeing if any stick with you.

If she goes to the registry office without her DP he won’t be included on the birth certificate as they aren’t married. Unmarried couples must attend the registry office together for both parents to be named in birth certificate.

So he feels his views, wishes and needs trump everyone elses - patriarchy anyone? All relationships have to manage disagreements well - he does not sound like he is open to this. I feel you are likely to have a lot more problems in future due to his attitude.

If his culture is so important to him and his family, how come he's gone to live 12,000 miles away, and if his adherence to that culture is so important to his family, why haven't they stopped him marrying a white person?

You need to get your child a passport and hide it away so his dad can't take him to get circumcised behind your back.

If his stance had been "I'd really like dd to have a Maori name, it worries me that the children won't feel connected to my heritage. An Irish middle name that they can be known as would be a wonderful way to combine both of our cultures don't you think?" I'd think that was fair enough.

But that isn't the case, he's just being a misogynistic prick.

My DCs are mixed heritage with one half being Indian. They have English names because we live in Britain. Their middle names are French as that’s my heritage, and their surname is Indian as that’s my husband’s. They haven’t been rejected by any part of their family on any side. Maybe your family is close minded and racist, but please don’t assume that all families are the same as that’s very prejudiced.

Also my DCs very strongly identify as British, why wouldn’t they? They are British, I’m British, DH is British. Their skin colour is not important to them, or to anyone who matters in our lives.

I find your post very disheartening. Isn’t there enough parochial hatred in the world?

I'm Irish and I agree!!! Has he never heard of Riverdance?

She is your daughter, you are the mother. His family have had their turn in naming their own children.

I know that this may be a contentious view, but couples from different cultural backgrounds should come together and have children with an understanding and openness, as well as respect for their partners background. I feel that they should, if they want to be a mixed-cultural family, value all of their cumulative aspects, with equality. Your partner is not doing that. If he wanted a name only from his own culture, and sees his culture as superior, then what was the logic of coming together with a person from a different background.

Your child is a product of BOTH of you.

Please can everyone stop lumping circumcision together with FGM. They are fundamentally different, and while you are perfectly entitled to disagree with both, one of them (circumcision) allows for a full sexual life, while the other doesn’t. The sexual violence that FGM imposes on girls is of a different nature to male circumcision, and they should not be considered together in this argument.

As a woman, and a feminist, and also (let's not forget!) as a human being and a parent, I disagree. Utterly. All bodies are sacred. There is some evidence that circumcision reduces sensation, and that must imply reduced pleasure. The foreskin is an important part of male sexual sensitivity, and I can't see any reason to take it away. The 'hygiene' argument has been torpedoed for decades, if it even had any validity, and as for aesthetics, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and how many people, exactly, should be looking at a little boy's willy? You have your clitoris, and would rightly scream blue murder if anyone said it should come off for 'cultural' reasons. Why can a boy not have the same protection?

US National Institutes of Health study:

Objectives: To test the hypothesis that sensitivity of the foreskin is a substantial part of male penile sensitivity. To determine the effects of male circumcision on penile sensitivity in a large sample.

Subjects and methods: The study aimed at a sample size of ≈1000 men. Given the intimate nature of the questions and the intended large sample size, the authors decided to create an online survey. Respondents were recruited by means of leaflets and advertising.

Results: The analysis sample consisted of 1059 uncircumcised and 310 circumcised men. For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity. They also stated more effort was required to achieve orgasm, and a higher percentage of them experienced unusual sensations (burning, prickling, itching, or tingling and numbness of the glans penis). For the penile shaft a higher percentage of circumcised men described discomfort and pain, numbness and unusual sensations. In comparison to men circumcised before puberty, men circumcised during adolescence or later indicated less sexual pleasure at the glans penis, and a higher percentage of them reported discomfort or pain and unusual sensations at the penile shaft.

Conclusions: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality.

@Manadou , I can see where you are coming from, but I don’t agree with you and I don’t want to derail OP’s trail. People can do their own research and come to their own views. I will simply say this: given that circumcision prevalence is around 38% worldwide, and that men, by and large, sadly still rule the world, I would hazard a guess that it doesn’t affect their sexual life as much as you think, or the practice would have stopped.

I’m going to go against the grain here. Whilst he shouldn’t dictate the name, I do think you should choose a “cultural name”. Not necessarily for him, but for your daughter.

Obviously everyone’s experience as a mixed race individual is different, I acknowledge that.

For myself and others it can be difficult to connect with the culture which isn’t dominant, so for me the culture of my POC immigrant parent. The culture of my white British parent surrounds me everyday.

Having a name that aligns with the “other side” of my culture is grounding, it makes me feel more connected to a culture which exists thousands of miles away.

Some POC people don’t feel I’m “enough” , having a name that aligns with that culture gives me a sense of ownership to a culture that I can be excluded from.

Your partner is surrounded by British culture everyday, I can see why he wants to give his daughter a name that aligns with his culture.

The pressure from his family may be immense. I don’t know your situation, but for some families accepting that their adult child is not having children with someone Of the same culture is a huge adjustment for very complicated reasons.

Also if one child has a name that aligns with the culture I wouldn’t give the other a name which doesn’t. You want to create a feeling of belonging and sameness for mixed race children, in a world where a majority aren’t like them.

My eldest got a Kenyan middle name because 'tradition', I then found out the grandparents had made those tradition up. My next two had English names.
You'll have to keep repeating yourself but yes your kids may be half Tongan but they're also half Irish.
Sadly being mixed race means society often forgets the 'half European' bit and my younger two identify as black but their culture is as British as it is Kenyan, they are a beautiful mix. Your OH needs to remember that.