For not wanting to give daughter cultural name

[Sia2822]

Hello
I am irish living in the UK (my parents are both Irish and we moved here when I was 2) My partner is Tongan in the pacific islands born in New Zealand in to the Māori culture.

Our first child (a son) was named a Māori name as he wanted and we went through all the names and compromised on one.

I really want to call our daughter Orla which is an Irish name, I don’t just want to call her Orla because it’s an Irish name, I want to use it because I’ve always loved that name and said I’d call future child it. If he doesn’t like that name (which he says he doesn’t) then I have 20 or so other options I like but he just says he doesn’t like them all. He doesn’t even think after I say the name, it’s just an instant no. I’ve asked him to find some baby girl names he likes and he made a list but they’re all Māori names and to be honest I don’t like them. He’s asked me to find a Māori girls name that I do like and although I’m sure there is a few I will like, I want to choose a name I truly want this time not be restricted to a certain culture of names.

Ive told partner that baby may be half tongan but she is also half Irish so it shouldn’t matter if she’s named a Māori name or not, his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”. I’ve suggested a Māori name as a middle name but he’s having none of it. Says baby needs a Māori name and that if she has an Irish or English name his family will feel hugely disrespected and that it’s important baby holds her culture in her name.

AIBU for not wanting to choose a cultural name this time?

So his culture is soooooo important to him but he can't see past his own nose to other cultures and understand how they might be important. As an Irish person I'm enraged, I can only imagine how you feel.

I am Irish, I have lived in UK and am now back in Ireland with a husband I picked up along the way 😀. His heritage is Irish too but he was born and raised in UK. He lived in a very diverse area so his close friends from school all have parents from all over the world. These cultures are really important to the parents but of varying importance to the offspring. He can try and force it as much as he likes but your child will choose their own path!

I once had a friend tell me that the Irish language was just made up nonsense sounds when discussing place names. He was sure of it because his Dad had told him this (his Dad made many inappropriate anti Irish comments over the years!) I was enraged and told him so. He educated himself and later apologised. I think your husband needs to educate himself on Irish culture and history, and if he is unwilling to then he's awful! Why wouldn't you want your child to experience as many different cultures as possible?

Also love Orla and Caitlin as Irish girls names and they were the only two we agreed on. But we are having a boy 😅

Ah now , that's a very thick book. Maybe start off with Portrait of the Artist as a young man.

I knew an Indian lady who called her son Kevin after an Irish teacher she used to have a crush on. She was a Christian from Goa mind you. As pps have have there's lots of Maori with European names. There's lots of mixed race Irish with exotic names now too. There is a lad here called Omar and his surname is Irish.

The first Maori I heard of was the great All Black scrum half Syd Going. That's a grand ould tribal name isn't it?

The Irish have no culture? What about the rich canon of ancient mythology? Being known as Scholar's Isle and the numbers of priests sent to Ireland to improve their education in Medieval times?

The dancing? Poetry and song? Literature?

Does he also think that the French know nothing about food and wine?

I don’t like the sound of him at all. Who does he think he is, the superior pompous oaf!

I’d be feeling I had more problems with him than just choosing a name! He’s disrespectful and self centred.

And to add, Orla is a beautiful name!

I don't know the French eat snails and frogs legs so I'm not sure they do know much about food. Joke...😂

Hi OP . Orla is a lovely .
Stand your ground . It doesn’t sound like he wants to compromise at all. You let him have his name . Now pick the one you like !
Also doesn’t sound like he is respecting any side of where you can from Irish or Uk .
Why can’t it be reversed and you give him a list fo name you like and he picks.
Reality is he can’t name the child alone, you can.
Use your name .

Mixed race family here. We used a Chinese middle name. And surname! First name was a British name we both liked. Works for us. DH is British Chinese though so grew up here, and has an English name himself.

It sounds like he misunderstands what "culture" means I general, as well as the distinctions among and between Irish culture versus British or English and versus global Anglosphere. It also sounds like he's not listening/making an effort to understand when you try to explain your perspective to him.

I can understand his wanting the children to have Maori names or a Maori element in their names - and it may actually be stronger because that is the culture they're away from and less connected to because of where they live. But "I don't like the name Orla, let's keep looking" is the beginning of the conversation, not the end. He seems to dismiss your needs, preferences, and ideas in favor of his own and make up stupid generalizations to justify dismissing you. If that's the case, finding a mutual acceptable baby name isn't going to solve the issue even if it's possible.

Sir Jerry Mateparae was a senior NZ Army officer and later Governor-General, the second Maori G-G after Sir Paul Reeves (very tribal, that!), who had previously been Archbishop of New Zealand.

Could I just point out a couple of things.

Aotearoa/New Zealand is a signatory to the Hague Convention and also UNCOROC - the United Convention on the Rights of the Child. A child's normal place of domicile under both of these is taken very seriously, and the child's best interests is placed as paramount in any custody dispute.

Under New Zealand law, Te Tiriti o Waitangi is a constitutional document, which is consistently embedded into law as needing to be considered if relevant to a dispute. Tamariki/children are considered taonga/treasure, as is Maori tikanga/te teo/Maori culture and language, so allowing children to access their culture and heritage would be given some consideration in a custody dispute.

Te reo/Maori language, not to mention culture and history is undergoing something of a renaissance in Aotearoa. It is being a lot more widely and consistently embraced by many, not just Maori, but Pakeha/ New Zealanders of other races and heritage also, and becoming a lot more mainstream. As a spin off, people are far more likely to endow their children with Maori names. As opposed to earlier in New Zealand's history when using te reo was actively suppressed, and Maori were encouraged to blend into Pakeha/European culture in all things.

There have been many Maori of note, for example, Ta/Sir Apirana Ngata, off the top of my head, (1874-1950), known as one of New Zealand's greatest statesmen.

This is not to say, as I have previously stated, that I agree with this man's stance on the naming of their child. I think he is way off base, and not giving due respect and weight to his wife's culture and wish to celebrate her heritage in the naming of their child, and he should wind his fucking neck in.

Sorry, should have put with reference to Te Tiriti - would be considered if relevant to the child in question - given that each case turns very much upon its facts.

So he wants them to have a first name and surname from his culture, erasing any connection to your culture? If you’re not going to double-barrel surnames then both children should absolutely have a first name from your culture so that BOTH cultures are represented in their names. You really need to put your foot down here. They are equally Irish and Māori and your culture is just as important as his. You’re also living away from the origin of your culture (Irish and English culture are different) so your culture is equally at risk of being erased (perhaps more so because of the two cultures being more similar). I think offering for him to choose a middle name for your DD is very generous given she will also have his surname and he chose the name for your DS. Don’t accept less than this. This is not about the name Orla, this is about him not respecting your culture or holding it in equal weight and therefore refusing to have any name that isn’t Māori.

Re circumcision it is traditionally Tongan (paternal grandmother’s culture)and the statistics say almost 100% of Tongan young people are circumcised 7-15 years. Apparently gangs of youths in NZ are known to coerce sometimes unwilling youths to have the op.
Amongst Māori it was traditionally unknown and only the Waikato Māori habitually practise the custom. OP where does your partner come from?
If he is keen for your DS to return to Tonga for the op, then maybe price may be the reason, because it appears his whanau are in NZ.

My DS’s dad shutdown all my name suggestions without a thought so I feel your frustration, funnily enough many of my name suggestions were Irish too. To say the Irish have no culture is an insult and frankly really ignorant of him. For various reasons I ended up registering DS birth alone with a (Irish)name of my choosing. OP your partner should be 50/50 with you, you compromised your culture for your 1st child and your partner should be willing to do the same for you this time. I think the fact you’ve suggested using a Māori middle name is more than fair and if he can’t accept that register little Órla without him.

It’s quite common for a lot of cultures to assume traditionally white cultures don’t count or don’t feel things as culturally strongly. That’s obviously really unfair and your partner is in the wrong here. Put your foot down and say it’s your turn to name your child and she will be Orla. He can always call her Koura (gold in Māori and probably as close as you’ll get in meaning) as a nickname if he likes, but her name is Orla.

I think he's being unreasonable, there's a lot of options here.
Me and my husband come from different cultures. We gave our kids 3 names. The first name is the one that would be easily understood in our country and by most English speakers. Two remaining names are from each of our cultures and we decide on those unilaterally (I never asked his opinions on the names I chose, it's my right to give my kid those names. Same with him).
At the end of the day, our kids all chose their preferred names once they grew up a bit,

While In understand what you are saying, I kinda think it's nice if the two children's names "go" together eg Two Tongan named children or two Irish named children. Surely you can put Orla as a middle name?

That’s fine if you want to follow that rule, but others won’t see it that way.

Besides, siblings spend far more of their lifetime living apart - and don’t need matching / complementary names.

Yes, I don't view my DC as a set, they have names from different cultures that don't "go" (albeit not as different as Tongan and Irish!). Just two names we liked.

You partner is a disrespectful, railroading, insecure prick.

I think you're going to have to put your foot down or reconsider the relationship tbh. I know it sounds dramatic but honestly if you cave on the name I guarantee in 2 years your DS will be on a plane to NZ to be circumsized. You think DH has given in on that point, I promise you he's just avoiding an argument and biding his time.

This is tricky.

Ultimately of course you aren't unreasonable to want and have a role in deciding and naming your children.
I think what irks me is the idea that anything other than his culture is sub-par to it. Not different but apparently non- existent.
I just couldn't tolerate that and I would dig my heels in on the things that made me feel overriden making things like names a battle ground.

Id probably focus in on that and the way it makes you feel and how it will play out in the future. It sounds like your husband should have probably made it clear he was going to have expectations on your children that aren't necessarily the norm where he has chosen to raise his family - before they came along! . That's a big consideration. He hasn't chosen to marry within and build a life that "within" his culture. To make it compatible he needs to be willing to compromise.

It's a fair point to wonder why this is only coming up now but it's too late. I would try and have a conversation that looks at the bigger issue here. The name will be easier to agree if you can get on the same page about expectations and sensitivities. And he needs a history lesson or too that isn't just his own ancestory. Making wild statements to disrespect your family is just childish.

He sounds nice. Oh wait, if nice means misogynistic prick. Your culture is as important as his. You have an equal say, and he chose last time. He needs to remember that!

@tellittothemoon

i disagree. They will only be children and referred to together for a relatively short period of their lives. Therefor sibling names do not need to ‘go together’ at all.