For not wanting to give daughter cultural name

[Sia2822]

Hello
I am irish living in the UK (my parents are both Irish and we moved here when I was 2) My partner is Tongan in the pacific islands born in New Zealand in to the Māori culture.

Our first child (a son) was named a Māori name as he wanted and we went through all the names and compromised on one.

I really want to call our daughter Orla which is an Irish name, I don’t just want to call her Orla because it’s an Irish name, I want to use it because I’ve always loved that name and said I’d call future child it. If he doesn’t like that name (which he says he doesn’t) then I have 20 or so other options I like but he just says he doesn’t like them all. He doesn’t even think after I say the name, it’s just an instant no. I’ve asked him to find some baby girl names he likes and he made a list but they’re all Māori names and to be honest I don’t like them. He’s asked me to find a Māori girls name that I do like and although I’m sure there is a few I will like, I want to choose a name I truly want this time not be restricted to a certain culture of names.

Ive told partner that baby may be half tongan but she is also half Irish so it shouldn’t matter if she’s named a Māori name or not, his response to that was Ireland and England have “no culture”. I’ve suggested a Māori name as a middle name but he’s having none of it. Says baby needs a Māori name and that if she has an Irish or English name his family will feel hugely disrespected and that it’s important baby holds her culture in her name.

AIBU for not wanting to choose a cultural name this time?

Do not let him take your son to NZ to be circumcised - he might not bring him back.
If his Māori and Tongan roots and culture are so important to him, why has he left NZ? Has he made the UK his permanent home or will he be persuading/pressuring you to move to the other side of the world soon? How would you feel about that?

I'm a Kiwi, and boy howdy, he has put his foot in it bigtime, hasn't he?

My deal was that they got his surname, he got one middle name, and I had the choice for first and other middle names. After all, we're the ones pushing them out.

He got the first name for one, you get the first name for the next.

As to England and Ireland having no culture/history, clearly that is patently untrue. However English (not Irish) history in Aotearoa and the Pacific Islands is not without its barbs and stings, and perhaps that is what he is meaning to refer to.

Bottom line though, you get to celebrate your cultural roots and heritage, just as he has done so already.

Doesn't that make you embarrassed at your ignorance?

BTW Northern Ireland is in the UK, Ireland isn't.

It's very offensive to lump Ireland in with England, especially when talking about culture.

”Ireland and England have “no culture”.”

This is not nice at all. What a sad attitude to have as a parent. He should be embarrassed to even think such a thing. I hope you pull him up on such bigotry, OP. What a twat he is.

And yes, call your DD Orla - it’s really beautiful.

OP, you know he doesn't respect you or your own culture or extended family, right?

This won't end well.

He sounds like something out of Noah’s ark he’s so ancient in his views.

Its 2023.

He’s horribly patriarchal and seems to think his needs/views/beliefs/culture trump yours.

How did you fall in love with this fossil?

I’m not even sure it’s worth asking him why he considers himself so much better and righter than you on everything. He has zero self awareness or empathy.

Your partner does not respect you. He sees it as his absolute right to make the decisions regarding your children, and that you have no say in anything. He talks of "his family will feel hugely disrespected" whilst he hugely disrespects you, your parents and your culture.

He is an arsehole.

1. Register your daughter's birth alone, call her Orla.
2. Get your mother to keep a hold of your son's passport and don't let him take your son to NZ.
3. Reconsider your future and whether you want him in it.

All names are cultural in a sense. This isn't about culture....he is a sexist . The end.

I would be careful of him applying for residency back in NZ

As NZ have a strange issue about letting your children live anywhere else once they set foot in the country. (Literally disembarking from the plane) if their father won’t allow it.

Seems his culture are very much do as we say or you are disrespectful.

If he thinks the Maori is superior to every one else why did he leave.
Why did he partner up with someone who is lesser in his eyes than him

I would do some research on the Maori culture as he could be using the disrespectful card to hide his controlling nature

Tbh i wouldnt even put him on the birth certificate at all. nz has a nasty habit of not retuning kidnapped children. Leave him and call the baby whatever you want.

In fairness I'm the first to complain about people from the UK getting it wrong but I think it's fair enough further afield - it's complicated.

Not this man since he lives in the UK and has children with Irish heritage, but in general if someone has only ever lived in NZ I think it's a reasonable gap in the old general knowledge (of which I have oh so many).

I do wonder how much the OP has a say in anything judging by his attitude

Next time he tells you the Irish have no culture, try slapping him with a copy of Finnegans Wake.

He sounds like a domineering pig to me. He doesn’t dislike the name Orla, he is just going to keep vetoing every name you suggest to force his own way.

And learn Gaelic if you want and teach your kids a few words. It’s a fascinating and beautiful language.

I think perhaps his Tongan/Maori culture is more important to him than your Irish culture is to you and due to distance and historical subjugation of indigenous peoples you have allowed him to have his way in a lot of areas in your children's lives. But it doesn't mean you have to make all the compromises. Can you find an Irish name (you like) with the same meaning as his favoured Maori name? Emphasise the meanings (and history) of your favourite names. He has chosen Maori over Tongan for your son - presumably his Tongan family coped with that? Them feeling disrespected is less important than you actually being dismissed by him.

they will want to, eventually, find connections with the Maori part of themselves and that can only happen meaningfully if they have a Maori name.

Where are you getting this from?

There are plenty of Māori in NZ, with English names.

I work in a large organisation where te reo is spoken all around. There are plenty of Māori immersed in te ao Māori,
fluent in their reo, with English names.

OP - his culture is a red herring. You are dealing with a garden variety misogynist, who’s simply using his culture to be sexist.

Although I do get your point, I do think the fact we (UK/NZ) share the same Monarch kind of makes this inexcusable. Yeah, don't get me started about people from the UK being clueless about this too 😶 I still get asked by English people if I need to get Euros when going home (to NI) 🙄

How much do you know about the culture and politics of the other side of the world?

I’m not excusing this man for one minute, purely addressing the point that if it’s ignorant for people not to understand the UK, then by extension, that must mean it’s ignorant not to understand the entire world - and that’s simply not possible.

Why should his heritage be more important to him? Irish people have been historically subjugated and genocided too.

Not that it matters: everyone should be allowed to celebrate their heritage.

Urgh

when he carries a child in his body for nine months and all that entails and then give birth to it he can have the final say on what child is called.

until the he can get fucked.

simple as.

New Zealand is in the Commonwealth!! We're not talking about some random unassociated country here. It shares a Monarch with the UK!

The whole balance of power and culture in this relationship reeks of toxic masculinity. I wouldn’t want my son being brought up like that.

Well I don’t get why you’ve slept with this jerk when it’s clear he doesn’t respect your opinions, your culture, or your right to autonomy, but that’s your call.

Tell him that this is a learning opportunity for him about English and Irish cultures and that the following points are really central to both English and Irish cultures:

• treating the mother of your children with respect
• taking turns when you both want different things, not just ‘man tell woman what to do, woman obey’
• listening and compromising with your co-parent
• where parents aren’t married, it’s traditional in both England and Ireland that the mother chooses the child’s name.

Tell him that you aren’t asking his permission, you were inviting him to a discussion in which you’d both compromise to agree on a name you both like, but as all he has no interest in a compromise and is basically being racist by vetoing all names from your culture, you’ll just choose the name without any further input from him.

And stand absolutely firm on your son not having the circumcision, he sounds like the sort of man who’ll just get it done when your back is turned.

Amazed with his superiority complex that he lowered himself to sleep with you at all 👀 not so fussy about culture when he’s thinking with his dick eh.

You made your own bed, didn't you? You should have thought about it better before having children with someone with such a radically different culture who's also very patriarchal and supremacist whether he would have any respect for your culture as well. Unfortunately due to his culture he doesn't seem like the kind of man who believes in equality and is willing to compromise and he looks like he's more interested on imposing his culture above yours regardless of your feelings, so you can either accept it and submit to everg single one of his whims or use your legal rights to choose for your daughter against his wishes and risk a separation or divorce, which seems very likely if you don't do whatever he wants at all times

I don't think his culture is more important than hers, but he seems to have more traditions (dress and language) that he actively keeps up. That may be partly because he has moved away. He should not be dismissing his partner's (and children's) Irish heritage at all.