Aibu to not refund this buyer?

[Sellerseller1]

Have an online website selling handmade items.

Buyers item was shipped with royal mail tracked delivery, tracking info says it was delivered to a safe place.

Customer has now emailed to say item must have been stolen from said safe place and therefore they want me to refund.

Aibu to say no? I have sympathy if it genuinely was stolen but firstly I can't just refund everyone who messages to say something has been stolen with no evidence it actually has been and secondly, I've fulfilled my obligation in that it's been sent and marked as delivered on the tracking page.

If they come back and it seems they are actually telling the truth I.e. trying to correspond with royal mail/ the police then I may as a gesture of good will replace it but I don't think I need to straight away? (Or even at all technically).

Fwiw item wasn't cheap and took a lot of work.

Hardly a safe place if it's been 'stolen'

I'd expect a bit more than a quick email, especially as they've immediately asked for a refund.

Ask them to get a Police reference number if they persist.

How does one provide evidence that they haven’t got something?

Im sure the police have better things to do with their time than hunt down missing parcels

If it wasn't left in a safe place then it's on Royal Mail/ the courier to refund them, not you OP. I'd advise them to contact the courier and raise a refund request that way.

As you say, you've fulfilled all the parts of your contract with her- it's the delivery company that have failed on their part if the buyer is telling the truth x

Can she claim with Royal Mail? You've done your part she's had the item delivered to her property.

She should choose a better safe place.

Check the delivery photo. Was it handed to someone?

As pp said, not a safe place then was it. Ignore them unless they can provide evidence of pursuing it with the carrier.

You picked the courier so you'll need to raise the problem with Royal Mail and claim a refund from them.

You can then refund the buyer.

EDIT: Her contract is with you, your contract is with the courier so she is unlikely to be able to claim any compensation herself - that has to come from you.

YABU as the purchaser of the postage only you can claim against the delivery company. They didn’t post the item so can’t claim. Refund then take it up with them.

Yanbu.

The post office has confirmed that it was delivered to their nominated safe space. You have fulfilled your contract. Unless they are a very good regular customer, I would point that out and tell them to claim on their house insurance.

I disagree, I’d say the onus is on you to remedy it as the buyer had a contract with you that hasn’t been fulfilled.

You then need to remedy your loss with the delivery service, as that’s who your contract was with.

Ohh seems like non of us know as all the advice is different.

Unfortunately I don't think royal mail will pay out their insurance if their tracking is saying delivered to the correct address.

I have responded and asked the buyer to contact royal mail and said that I will do so as well to show willing on my part to help.

I just don't know how I can be expected to refund or replace every item that someone just decides to tell me has been stolen, obviously I would if the tracking wasn't showing as delivered but how can I know its not a scam and what's to stop every other buyer just saying the same and getting a refund?

There will be photo and location numbers on their delivery e mail that will show where parcel was left. Royal mail do sometimes get it wrong, i had a parcel delivered but the photo was someones shed, i did the location number coordinates and it gave an address 6 doors away went to look in their shed and there it was! Suggest they check all this out before doing anything.

I might be wrong but the delivery contract is between the seller and the delivery company. So it is the OP who needs to contact the courier.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the buyer is lying about this unless you have reason - have you never had a parcel lost or misplaced or not left where the courier said before? It is really frustrating and if they are telling the truth they are powerless. It's also not particularly useful to consider this as a 'what if' everyone made a false claim, unless to think about how you will prevent this happening again. Personally I would refund or replace, take this up with Royal Mail, and reconsider postage options in future.

You should still be able to claim with Royal Mail.

I had an issue a few years ago where my dad sent me a small parcel - it was marked as delivered but never showed up. He had to wait a certain amount of time (I think 30 days) and then he could raise a claim - which he did and Royal Mail refunded him the value of the item plus postage.

It never did show up so I assume it was stolen.

Yes I believe so but if they have actually delivered it, who's responsibility is it then if someone steals it after it's been delivered? If the buyer selects a safeplace which turns out to actually not be safe I don't know why that is then my responsibility to be out of pocket for.

Royal Mails contract is with you not the buyer so its you that needs to contact them.

Royal Mail's 'safe place' could mean left outside a front door, visible to anyone walking past. In my area, people on bicycles have been noted following delivery vans to steal items left outside a property. All the delivery services seem to do this 'safe place' delivery now, without the buyers authorisation. While writing this, Amazon left a delivery outside by my bins, with a 'sorry we missed you' note through my door, and an email to say it was posted through my letterbox. It wasn't. I'm at home, they didn't even knock on my door. You may be unreasonable

Yes of course I've had people before who's parcel has been left somewhere it shouldn't have been and I've asked the buyer to check around their property and have said I will contact royal mail to double check the delivery coordinates. Its the buyer who's insisting it must have been stolen and therefore I need to refund them straight away.

Need to clarify what the safe place is and whether that's where it was delivered to.

You won't be out of pocket because you can get your money back via Royal Mail.

And as for "safe spaces" it depends whether it's a place selected by the buyer or just some place RM dumped the parcel. We've had parcels delivered to a "safe space" before - which actually meant chucked on our doorstep for anyone to take.

This.

And to everyone saying “ it’s not a safe place then”, okay sure, but that’s not necessarily the buyers fault? The buyer maybe didn’t choose it as a safe place.

I regularly get couriers leaving quite expensive things in the front (unstaffed) reception entrance of my building and if I check online to track package its marked as “left in a safe place” . The building have even put up a sign at reception saying leave at your own risk. So it’s not really a safe place. I even had a treadmill left there!

I’m practically always in during the week so I’d prefer they deliver to my apartment where there’s less people traffic, and I trust my immediate neighbours not to take it - but usually the reception is where Royal Mail and others deliver to. Once I seen a potentially dodgy person trying to follow me into the fobb entry building where I stayed at the time .

I stopped her from doing so by doing a quick turn and taking the side entrance instead. If she had got in, she could’ve easily and quickly taken any parcels left at the reception entrance.

Reading on Royal mail now it says either buyer or seller can make a claim but only one will be awarded compensation so looks like we can both bring it up with them. I appreciate they are my courier though so I will contact them. I'm not sure there is any harm in asking the buyer too as well though.

If they the buyer selected the safe space Royal Mail won't refund you as it on the buyer.

If Royal Mail just dumped it they will refund you if it was insured.

I would wait to refund until you hear from Royal Mail

Normally the delivery contract is between the seller and the Delivery Company and the onus is on the seller to ensure the parcel gets delivered safely

BUT all the courier services do warn you, before you ask them to deliver to a 'safe place' that the person requesting the delivery to a 'safe place' takes full responsibility if anything goes wrong

@Sellerseller1 I would check specifically with Royal Mail that the buyer was the one who provided the 'safe place' and double check that it was definitely delivered to the specified safe place. If so, I'm pretty sure the onus is on your buyer - but you might need to double check that