Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to not refund this buyer?

286 replies

Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 14:48

Have an online website selling handmade items.

Buyers item was shipped with royal mail tracked delivery, tracking info says it was delivered to a safe place.

Customer has now emailed to say item must have been stolen from said safe place and therefore they want me to refund.

Aibu to say no? I have sympathy if it genuinely was stolen but firstly I can't just refund everyone who messages to say something has been stolen with no evidence it actually has been and secondly, I've fulfilled my obligation in that it's been sent and marked as delivered on the tracking page.

If they come back and it seems they are actually telling the truth I.e. trying to correspond with royal mail/ the police then I may as a gesture of good will replace it but I don't think I need to straight away? (Or even at all technically).

Fwiw item wasn't cheap and took a lot of work.

OP posts:
Jewelspun · 30/10/2023 16:18

I alway thought the onus was on the seller to get the item to the buyer and in the event of their chosen courier cocking it up, the seller should immediately refund the buyer and take up the complaint with the courier to claim on the postage insurance.

margotrose · 30/10/2023 16:31

Mumwithqs · 30/10/2023 16:09

The buyer chose to ask the driver to leave it in a safe place. The place clearly wasn't safe. That's not your problem.

The item was 'stolen' whilst in the buyer's property/possession, not yours.

We don't know that.

Royal Mail often pick their own random "safe space".

margotrose · 30/10/2023 16:31

Jewelspun · 30/10/2023 16:18

I alway thought the onus was on the seller to get the item to the buyer and in the event of their chosen courier cocking it up, the seller should immediately refund the buyer and take up the complaint with the courier to claim on the postage insurance.

It is.

fuzzleberry · 30/10/2023 16:38

Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 14:59

Unfortunately I don't think royal mail will pay out their insurance if their tracking is saying delivered to the correct address.

I have responded and asked the buyer to contact royal mail and said that I will do so as well to show willing on my part to help.

I just don't know how I can be expected to refund or replace every item that someone just decides to tell me has been stolen, obviously I would if the tracking wasn't showing as delivered but how can I know its not a scam and what's to stop every other buyer just saying the same and getting a refund?

Have you shared the GPS coordinates / photos from your tracking with the buyer?

You have to raise the claim with Royal Mail ( ask them to open an investigation if you doubt she's telling the truth which means they will raise the issue with the local office and can ask her postie where they left it - let her know you're going down this route to help her track it down and it might 'appear'
)

But you need to raise the claim with RM and you need to refund her - her contract is with you, RM will not deal with her as the end customer ( nor should they have to her contract is with you )

donquixotedelamancha · 30/10/2023 16:41

If it wasn't left in a safe place then it's on Royal Mail/ the courier to refund them, not you OP. I'd advise them to contact the courier and raise a refund request that way.

As pp said, not a safe place then was it. Ignore them unless they can provide evidence of pursuing it with the carrier.

Either the royal mail is responsible or they need to claim on their house insurance. I don't think you are liable.

The item was 'stolen' whilst in the buyer's property/possession, not yours.

Why do people give completely incorrect advice with such certainty? If you don't know something it's really unhelpful to just spout your random opinion.

As PPs have said, the buyers contract is with OP, they have nothing to do with the courier who is working on behalf of OP. You want to google the Consumer Rights Act 2015 @Sellerseller1.

You will find that you either need to deliver the goods you contracted for to the purchaser (not dumped outside their address) or refund the money. If you think RM is negligent you need to take that up with them.

DreamingofGinoclock · 30/10/2023 16:54

I think after experiencing something from your customers side of things:

  1. If she asked Royal mail to leave in the safe space she doesn't have a leg to stand on (we had an item left in an unrequested (un)safe space.)
  1. If she didn't leave in a safe space she needs to log it with royal mail so they can investigate
  1. Then you need to take it up with royal mail as contract for delivery with royal mail was with you.

4..then only refund your customer of royal mail re fund you

I may be totally wrong though

roibustea · 30/10/2023 16:57

Sorry, but onus is on you as seller. Contact Royal Mail as they will need to prove they have left it somewhere that the buyer has agreed to be used as a safe space; if they can't then they will be liable, but only for the amount you've insured it for. I often don't get deliveries that they say have been delivered as I have quite a confusing entry, I call up and have the order resent or refunded. I have no idea if it's the company or the courier who refund, it's up to them to argue about it - the contract I have entered demands that the seller deliver me my goods and so I expect the parcel to be handed to me directly or left in a prearranged safe space. Would you just shrug your shoulders and chalk it up to a loss if you ordered something and the courier said it was put in a safe space but you never received it?

GoonieGang · 30/10/2023 17:02

I don’t think you should refund. If I got home to find the package wasn’t in my safe place then I wouldn’t automatically ask for a refund because they delivered it. I can’t blame the seller for as it was actually delivered 🤷‍♀️

KeeefBurtain · 30/10/2023 17:04

I’ve literally had the same thing as the buyer happen to me yesterday.

there’s a gate you need to get through to get to my house, it’s on the high street. There’s photo evidence that the Courier left it outside the gate on the street (my safe space is a neighbours house) and it was inevitably stolen.
the company I bought from immediately actioned a replacement order which will be delivered tomorrow. It wasn’t a small amount, just shy of £130 worth of goods.

if it was a one of a kind handmade item I think it unlikely the buyer would ask for a replacement if they had actually received the item. I’d be more wary if they pushed for a refund tbh.

Your customer ordered and didn’t receive goods from you, and are due either their order or the money back. If they were inclined they could kick up a stink and bad mouth your business online, which could damage your brand. I think the right thing to do would be to refund/replace and coordinate with the courier yourself.

C152 · 30/10/2023 17:05

I think YABU, OP. Royal Mail are notoriously bad at delivering anything and often completely invent a 'safe space', if they bother to dump the parcel at all, rather than just leave it at the sorting office and claim they tried to deliver.

If the items you make are of a high value, I would reconsider the delivery options you have available on your site. Either that or put the price of each item up a little bit to cover the occassional lost item.

Dinglewoop · 30/10/2023 17:10

Sorry that's happened OP! That must be really gutting as it's a hand made item and I assume took you a long time.

I think you're right in that the customer could be telling the truth or just as easily could be lying and trying to get a freebie from you. I would keep on to royal mail to find out what happened/ see if they'll refund you. Can you say to seller that you will provide a refund or replacement if/when royal mail is unable to trace the parcel?

Perhaps so this doesn't happen again in the future, you should change your delivery options so there is only delivery with signature. Good luck!

Maddy70 · 30/10/2023 17:10

Tale it up with the courier

Thingamebobwotsit · 30/10/2023 17:13

Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 14:59

Unfortunately I don't think royal mail will pay out their insurance if their tracking is saying delivered to the correct address.

I have responded and asked the buyer to contact royal mail and said that I will do so as well to show willing on my part to help.

I just don't know how I can be expected to refund or replace every item that someone just decides to tell me has been stolen, obviously I would if the tracking wasn't showing as delivered but how can I know its not a scam and what's to stop every other buyer just saying the same and getting a refund?

So I have had this happen to me. It is down to the seller to rectify the situation by claiming compensation from Royal Mail. They will investigate. Did they take a photo of the delivery in its safe place? And have you confirmed with the buyer that it is the correct safe place?

From a consumer perspective it is murky but fundamentally the issue is yours to resolve as her contract hasn't been fulfilled.

funbags3 · 30/10/2023 17:15

it'll be insured via RM so I'd start there 1st.

Lincslady53 · 30/10/2023 17:22

As the seller you are responsible for the goods until the customer has it, so you need to sort it out with the courier, and replace or refund. Seems unfair, but that is the law, The consumer rights act and distance selling regulations are the bits of law that cover this. Depending on the value of the goods you can insure the delivery, but when we sold via our website, we opted not to pay insurance and just replace, without question, any lost or damaged goods. In 12 years we only had a couple of issues so turned out much cheaper than paying insurance.

Namechange4234 · 30/10/2023 17:23

Is there a photograph showing where it was delivered to?

I'd offer to send another item rather than refund

applebee33 · 30/10/2023 17:24

No I wouldn't refund the buyer needs to take it up with the courier / postal service who left it in that "safe" spot !

HollaHolla · 30/10/2023 17:26

Sorry, but I've had stuff stolen, from a 'safe place'. I don't actually have a safe space defined, as I live in flats with a secure entry. The postie decided to leave it in the entryway to the building, and took a picture of it there (which was how I managed to track it.) By the time I got home after work, it was gone. It was a long process, as the seller refused to raise a complaint at first, but eventually - after about 6 weeks - I finally got a refund.
Beware, I had to leave a review, which referred to the seller not helping in the process, to warn others that they just washed their hands of the issue.

Discointhekitchen · 30/10/2023 17:37

TenderDandelions · 30/10/2023 15:49

I would be very suspicious of someone that's ordered a personalised item but once it's "stolen" demands a refund rather than another item. I would be very unsure whether it wasn't actually delivered correctly and they're now claiming that it's gone missing.

Common sense would say - OP contacts Royal Mail. If RM claim it's been delivered to a "safe place", then whether that safe place was noted by the buyer (therefore their fault if the safe place isn't actually safe) or RM (then I would say it's their fault they chose a non-safe place).

Buyer should be entitled to a replacement item at most - not a refund.

As I say, that's what would be sensible to me, but I know common sense doesn't always prevail!

This ☝️

The big companies like Amazon often operate a no quibble refund. They are a big company and can write off the losses.

However, it has set and expectation that companies will just refund if someone claims it was stolen.

I’d be wary. Why wouldn’t you ask for a replacement if it had been misplaced? ( particularly as you say it’s a personalised item)

CrabbiesGingerBeer · 30/10/2023 17:42

margotrose · 30/10/2023 15:08

You won't be out of pocket because you can get your money back via Royal Mail.

And as for "safe spaces" it depends whether it's a place selected by the buyer or just some place RM dumped the parcel. We've had parcels delivered to a "safe space" before - which actually meant chucked on our doorstep for anyone to take.

Show quote history

This. I have never nominated a ‘safe space’ with Royal Mail but I’ve still had various things left on my doorstep with the delivery message saying it’s been left in “my safe space”.

OP, you decided how to send the item (i.e. not requiring a signature) so I think you need to either refund or replace then follow up with Royal Mail for compensation.

CrabbiesGingerBeer · 30/10/2023 17:45

BaconMassive · 30/10/2023 15:21

Royal Mail wouldn't make up a safe space it will have been designated by the recipient.

Not my experience - they designate random ‘safe spaces’ with no consultation with the recipient all the time as far as I can tell. They certainly do it to me regularly!

Orange67 · 30/10/2023 17:46

Royal Mail once delivered to my "safe place" and it turned out to be a house with the same house number THREE STREETS AWAY. I'd probably be less trusting of Royal Mail if I was you.

fluffypotatoes · 30/10/2023 17:48

Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:20

I will contact royal mail and ask them to confirm what the safe place was and whether the buyer was the one who selected it as an option before doing anything then.

Yeah if royal mail left it where they asked then that's on the buyer

CrabbiesGingerBeer · 30/10/2023 17:50

applebee33 · 30/10/2023 17:24

No I wouldn't refund the buyer needs to take it up with the courier / postal service who left it in that "safe" spot !

Not legally correct - the OP is liable until the item reaches the recipient who does not have any contractual relationship with the courier.

towriteyoumustlive · 30/10/2023 17:51

Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:25

The customer selected this option at checkout.

Show quote history

The customer's choice of postage is irrelevant. It's up to a business to send the parcel with suitable insurance.

If your buyer did not opt for their item to be delivered to a safe space, then you need to either refund or replace.

Why don't you offer to replace it instead? A friend of mine who sells handmade items always offers this option as it flags up any scammers who just want the item for free.

Yes, both can put in a claim with Royal Mail, but it is good business practice to do this yourself rather than leaving it up to the buyer.