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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to not refund this buyer?

286 replies

Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 14:48

Have an online website selling handmade items.

Buyers item was shipped with royal mail tracked delivery, tracking info says it was delivered to a safe place.

Customer has now emailed to say item must have been stolen from said safe place and therefore they want me to refund.

Aibu to say no? I have sympathy if it genuinely was stolen but firstly I can't just refund everyone who messages to say something has been stolen with no evidence it actually has been and secondly, I've fulfilled my obligation in that it's been sent and marked as delivered on the tracking page.

If they come back and it seems they are actually telling the truth I.e. trying to correspond with royal mail/ the police then I may as a gesture of good will replace it but I don't think I need to straight away? (Or even at all technically).

Fwiw item wasn't cheap and took a lot of work.

OP posts:
Autumnleaves89 · 30/10/2023 15:16

YABU. Refund her and claim yourself with the courier.

goldierocks · 30/10/2023 15:17

Royal Mail have gone to pot where I live. I've not had any standard letter post in over a month; I go to the delivery office to collect it.

For parcels, sellers send me the tracking ID. It's always updated on the Royal Mail website to 'delivered to safe place' (which in my case is very secure) a good 24-48 hours before they actually deliver it.

Definitely agree the OP needs to chase Royal Mail to find out exactly where it was delivered to. Because my safe place is so secure, Royal Mail also think nothing of leaving me with parcels for other people in my road. They don't tell them where they are, so I have to deliver them. Complaints go nowhere.

Zakana · 30/10/2023 15:18

The “safe space” is usually, in my experience, chosen by the recipient, I do the sane with any parcels RM deliver to me. But when you choose your safe space, I believe there is a disclaimer you have to tick, saying you take full responsibility if the parcel is stolen from the safe space. So, I suppose firstly, is it the safe space as chosen by the recipient or RM just decided it was a “safe space” and left it there anyway, despite not being requested to do so by the recipient?

as the postage costs and service is a contract between you and RM, you would refund buyer and then claim from RM after.

in any event, even if you have to claim from RM and refund your buyer, it would be a good idea to know about the safe space thing I have mentioned above and also, if there is any actual proof, i.e, photo of parcel delivered and / or GPS coordinates, I think you would need them to back up your claim in any event.

good luck, hope it gets sorted soon.

BMW6 · 30/10/2023 15:20

I think it entirely depends on who selected the "safe space"

If the buyer chose it then what happens after delivery to that space is not the fault of you or the delivery company surely.

If RM chose the space then they would be at fault and you could claim from them to refund the buyer?

?

CherryMyBrandy · 30/10/2023 15:20

Her contract is with you. You decide on the courier method which you contract. It's your responsibility to make sure the customer receives the item.

It is NOT sufficient to deliver to a "safe place" and say your responsibility ends there unless the customer has agreed for you to deliver there and taken responsibility for it.

If they haven't received the item you need to refund and claim from the Royal Mail. RM HAVEN'T delivered the item to the address so they can't argue that. A "safe place" can mean anything but usually it's just left outside somewhere where anyone has access to it. Tbh it's a miracle that more items aren't stolen.

Greenpolkadot · 30/10/2023 15:20

How do you know that it's been 'stolen '.. ?
Just because the buyer says it has...?

Original poster
Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:20

I will contact royal mail and ask them to confirm what the safe place was and whether the buyer was the one who selected it as an option before doing anything then.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:21

Greenpolkadot · 30/10/2023 15:20

How do you know that it's been 'stolen '.. ?
Just because the buyer says it has...?

Yes this is my point. They have just sent me a short email saying "parcel has been stolen, i require a refund from you as ive been unable to use the item"

OP posts:
BaconMassive · 30/10/2023 15:21

Royal Mail wouldn't make up a safe space it will have been designated by the recipient.

margotrose · 30/10/2023 15:22

We've never selected a safe space (as we don't have one - terraced house with a door that opens on to the street) and we always get parcels dumped on the doorstep and marked as "left in safe space".

We've had a couple of things stolen off the doorstep and Royal Mail have always refunded as it was their choice to dump stuff on the pavement instead of taking it back to the depot.

Original poster
Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:22

BMW6 · 30/10/2023 15:20

I think it entirely depends on who selected the "safe space"

If the buyer chose it then what happens after delivery to that space is not the fault of you or the delivery company surely.

If RM chose the space then they would be at fault and you could claim from them to refund the buyer?

?

Yes I think this is what I need to find out first.

OP posts:
margotrose · 30/10/2023 15:22

BaconMassive · 30/10/2023 15:21

Royal Mail wouldn't make up a safe space it will have been designated by the recipient.

They often do make up a safe space.

Neriah · 30/10/2023 15:24

mummabubs · 30/10/2023 14:57

If it wasn't left in a safe place then it's on Royal Mail/ the courier to refund them, not you OP. I'd advise them to contact the courier and raise a refund request that way.

As you say, you've fulfilled all the parts of your contract with her- it's the delivery company that have failed on their part if the buyer is telling the truth x

No it isn't. I have had this - the contract is between the person who ordered the delivery to be made (the seller) and Royal Mail / the courier. Royal Mail / courier will only refund or even speak to the person who is their client.

The "safe place" that my courier yesterday left my very large parcel was in full view of the entire street on the doorstep - I was in and he didn't even bother to ring.

Merryoldgoat · 30/10/2023 15:24

If it’s a valuable item why did you not send it requiring a signature on delivery?

Original poster
Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:25

Merryoldgoat · 30/10/2023 15:24

If it’s a valuable item why did you not send it requiring a signature on delivery?

The customer selected this option at checkout.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:26

No it isn't. I have had this - the contract is between the person who ordered the delivery to be made (the seller) and Royal Mail / the courier. Royal Mail / courier will only refund or even speak to the person who is their client

According to royal mail website either person (buyer or seller) can make a claim, but they will only compensate one party. If both buyer and seller claim then the compensation will automatically go to the seller.

OP posts:
Neriah · 30/10/2023 15:26

BaconMassive · 30/10/2023 15:21

Royal Mail wouldn't make up a safe space it will have been designated by the recipient.

In March 2020 - I recall the date well, Royal Mail left an expensive delivery in a "safe space" - the rubbish bin, on the pavement OUTSIDE my house, on collection day. If they don't make them up, then they need a different definition of "safe space".

Neriah · 30/10/2023 15:27

Sellerseller1 · 30/10/2023 15:26

No it isn't. I have had this - the contract is between the person who ordered the delivery to be made (the seller) and Royal Mail / the courier. Royal Mail / courier will only refund or even speak to the person who is their client

According to royal mail website either person (buyer or seller) can make a claim, but they will only compensate one party. If both buyer and seller claim then the compensation will automatically go to the seller.

Well they've changed their minds then because they refused point blank to deal with me - and I was the one with CCTV of them putting the parcel in the bin!

Ophy83 · 30/10/2023 15:35

If the customer nominated the safe space they will also have had to confirm to Royal mail that they are responsible for any loss or damage that occurs as a result

Mrsm010918 · 30/10/2023 15:38

Fellow handmade seller 🙋‍♀️

If the buyer nominated the safe place then they are responsible and you do not have to refund. I would ask them if they had nominated a safe space.

If they didn't nominate and it was just left then it's your responsibility as a seller to cover either a refund or replacement.

Was there an image taken of the delivery?

I don't like to assume people are liars but... there's an increasing number of people who seem to be after free stuff in the handmade circles.

In the event they nominated a safe place themselves and you have an image of the delivery I would point them towards reporting parcel theft and would not refund. I recently had one delivery delivered without GPS coordinates and no image of delivery so I sent a replacement in that instance as no-one would be able to prove either way if it had been delivered or not.

Viviennemary · 30/10/2023 15:41

Either the royal mail is responsible or they need to claim on their house insurance. I don't think you are liable.

TenderDandelions · 30/10/2023 15:49

I would be very suspicious of someone that's ordered a personalised item but once it's "stolen" demands a refund rather than another item. I would be very unsure whether it wasn't actually delivered correctly and they're now claiming that it's gone missing.

Common sense would say - OP contacts Royal Mail. If RM claim it's been delivered to a "safe place", then whether that safe place was noted by the buyer (therefore their fault if the safe place isn't actually safe) or RM (then I would say it's their fault they chose a non-safe place).

Buyer should be entitled to a replacement item at most - not a refund.

As I say, that's what would be sensible to me, but I know common sense doesn't always prevail!

princefamilypaper · 30/10/2023 15:50

I got told an item was left in a safe place- I hadn't specified one DPD justx decided to pick one. Several months later I found a parcel right in the bottom of a bush 🙄 so maybe it's not actually stolen it's just in a random location?

Autumnleaves89 · 30/10/2023 15:55

margotrose · 30/10/2023 15:22

They often do make up a safe space.

Show quote history

Agreed! My most recent “safe space” was my FULL wheelie bin, on the curb outside my house waiting for collection!! Luckily I found it first!

Mumwithqs · 30/10/2023 16:09

The buyer chose to ask the driver to leave it in a safe place. The place clearly wasn't safe. That's not your problem.

The item was 'stolen' whilst in the buyer's property/possession, not yours.