Why do you allow your boys to fight/roughhouse

[Pooooochi]

DS is 7. I've recently noticed after school, at parties etc that most of the parents of his classmates smile & allow boys to be always punching at each other, wrestling.

If you let your kids fight, why do you?

We've always been absolutely zero tolerance on this sort of aggressive behaviour so DS just doesn't do it at all now - to the extent other adults have commented.

However, it seems like socially it means his peers sometimes push him around, they know he wont fight back. I find this sad. Why don't want a world full of aggressive men who jump at a fight any chance they get, so why do we allow it in little boys

“Thugs” prosper. Wimps are shat on. I know what I prefer for my kid.

I allow it so long as the other person consented and no one gets hurt.
Both my teenage DS do karate and they often spar each other and they know how to do it safely.
They are both good kids and don’t get trouble
at school.

Boys just like physical play. Some girls do and some boys don't but generally boys play differently.

There's always a strong emphasis on letting children play with whatever toys they want, why shouldn't they be able to play the way they want too?

Roughhousing is play. It can go too far sometimes for sure but that's when you learn from your mistakes.

Rough and tumble and play fighting is important for a kids development. A simple Google will tell you why.

Yeah this! Our DC1 is a girl and at 5 still loves what she calls "rough and tumble" with her DF/2yo DB (obviously much modified with him, she's great with him), 8yo cousin (also a girl), a couple of close friends who are 4-5 yrs old and a mix of sexes. I myself have fond memories of this type of play with my DF, cousins (all younger than me) and siblings (also all younger than me).

Lots of PP talking about 'aggression' and 'fighting'. However the OP talked about wrestling and pretend play. I don't see how either of those have anything to do with aggression or fighting, they're completely not the same thing at all. My DC and her cousins/friends are usually hysterically giggling through the play not hurting each other!

In our house it is definitely much more often led by DH (well, initially, now the kids ask for/initiate it themselves often too). However I do also engage in this kind of play sometimes too, with both my son and daughter. I have physical health issues though so that's probably part of the reason they prefer to do it with their DF is more flexible, strong,etc than me who suffers with chronic pain and swelling hah.

I break it up if my kids are fighting with other kids but they fight so much at home I don’t always have the energy.
They are actually fighting right now and I am on mumsnet…

edit as I can’t type

Yeah I quite agree with the posters against the "boys will be boys" bs and the idea that a lot of parents of boys perpetuate the male aggression and violence we see in adulthood. It starts from childhood.

I don't necessarily mind roughhousing and play fighting as long as there's no double standard with girls (both boys and girls are allowed or banned equally) and as long as it's just that: play.

The suggestion that allowing playfighting is synonymous with “boys will be boys” and propping up the patriarchy makes me quite angry, actually.

I have three sons, all articulate, well-mannered, enjoy being friends with girls/women, never involved in bullying. All remarked on as being mature and sensible. The two who are adults both actively anti-misogyny/ pro-feminism (the third too young to have formed those kinds of thoughts). One a great big rugby player, one more dramatic arty type. They are NOT propping up the patriarchy. All regularly engaged in playfighting as children. Playfighting - with boundaries established by parents - can very much be a part of a healthy upbringing of children (not just boys).

Clearly my ds isn't a proper boy, as he's never been the kind of kid to charge around or want to wrestle with others. Never been particularly fond of physical play either.

I've 2 ds and never once have they behaved in such a way , yes they can bicker but nothing physical. My eldest son has just finished school
And never once was he bullied, my youngest also has never been bullied

You must be joking. Surely there's always a sweet middle.

Anyway, "Wimp" would always be better than Thug, as wimps mind their business and thugs start wars, violence, etc.

Totally agree that loads of children have plenty of energy to get out and provided a load of activity for mine to do this, swimming, trampolines, bike rides, lots of time outdoors.

But this is kids grabbing other kids with two arms round the shoulders and tackling them to the ground, holding them so they are immobilised, lots of pushing and punching. Its aggressive and SO unnecessary, it regularly flips from "funny" (apparently) to a child looking angry and tearful.

I don't see how this is fun or how they are learning any useful skills they can't learn in a different, less aggressive way. Mine get to test their own limits climbing, throwing, using their bodies etc without needing to grapple and pummel another kid.

Animale might do this but they do a lot of things we don't, like eat their own shit, attack other members of their species, physically fight for the right to have sex with a female, attack their own young, lick their balls, and reproduce with their own siblings.

“Thugs” prosper. Wimps are shat on. I know what I prefer for my kid.

Dh is more of a wimp than a thug. He earns a shit load more money than the thugs he knew at school. He's fucking good at maths, he doesn't need his fists up.

to be clear, I’m talking about wrestling/ rough housing. Punching, hitting etc is different and not ok in my book.
Agree with this.

Unfortunately some parents confuse playful, consensual physical play with punching, hitting, tackling people from behind, throwing people on the floor, scrapping, play that promoted violence etc and then act like the world is being precious and wimpy for disagreeing with it. The pressure on boys that comes from other boys acting like the only way to be a real boy is to laugh along as someone side slides into you is awful.

Then again there's also a huge problem of male-on-male bullying being excused as "banter" and in those situations the similar rhetoric comes out: that the boy who is on the receiving end needs to stop being soft/stop being a wimp/learn to take a joke.

Lots of it rests on the idea that not engaging in a certain type of male pattern behaviour is soft (aka girly) which is undesirable.

Unfortunately some parent socialise their boys to think that the norm is violent/aggressive play, ignoring boundaries, and being unpleasant and then we wonder why some adult men behave the same way.

I have two boys who I let roll around and wrestle every now and then. That said, it’s carefully monitored and we keep an eye out to make sure the mood doesn’t turn.

Apparently, boys that are used to rough play can deal with anxiety better as it reconditions their stress responses. The more they deal with low-level stress in a safe environment, the better they are at dealing with it as they get older.

The suggestion that allowing playfighting is synonymous with “boys will be boys” and propping up the patriarchy makes me quite angry, actually.

I agree.

My sons playfight and it doesn’t bother me at all. It’s completely normal and a healthy way for them to learn about limits, interactions and boundaries.

You’ll find that “thugs” usually come from violent households, have seen violence and have been on the receiving end of it as children.

Playfighting isn’t violent. Playfighting is pretend aggression. If aggression is involved, it isn’t playfighting.

You have set up your son for a school career of being bullied because you’ve stopped him learning the skills to handle himself. Horrific.

He's is a strong, active boy. He plays rugby. He's perfectly capable of pushing them back. He chooses not to shove other kids around and I'm proud that he has control.

All - please reread my op. I don't say playfight. Im not talking about pretend lightsabers with cardboard tubes or a bit of rolling around.

I'm talking about boys of 7 hitting each other with parents watching and saying nothing.

What do you say to your boy at 7 if someone hits him?

Lolasmiles - thank you... someone who has actually read my op and understands I'm talking about kids hitting and pushing, this isn't a bit of gentle physical play, its fighting. It regularly ends in tears.

I tell him to walk away.

Why do boys rough and tumble? Because they are raised to do it in our patriarchal society.

Right from birth boys are treated differently from girls. Pink vs blue baby grows. Girls vs boys toys. Girls vs boys tv.

Look at any primary school playground, the majority of space in the middle is taken up by the boy's football - no girls allowed in the noisy rough and tumble. Meanwhile, the girls play their quiet role play games on the outskirts, keeping out the way of the ball, knowing their place.

A prepubescent boy who is friends with girls will be mocked and shamed by his prepubescent peers such is the message that girls are lesser than boys.

It's still socially shameful for a prepubescent boy to "act like a girl", to like dolls, to enjoy role play that isn't about fighting (guns, swords, martial arts, war).

We then seem dazed and confused about why the transgender movement is so prevalent in Gen Z when we've raised our kids with such clear messages about gender stereotypes from the moment we painted their nursery blue.

Perhaps it's time to really think what it means the next time your preteen tells you he "hates girls".

This sounds like my two ds. And my dd. They all enjoyed playfighting when young. It was their favourite activity when dh arrived home from work. They waited in anticipation. But they are grown into good people with a great attitudeto both sexes. . They pull me up on stuff l wouldn't even notice. Totally anti bullying but love their sport and all exercise and outdoor stuff. It's supposed to make them comfortable with their bodies and l know they have never been afraid of physical bullies in their school with the attitude..no one would bully me! They have never hit other kids or been physical with others.
There was absolutely no difference between boys and daughter but they never actually hit each other in a disagreement or dispute. It was pure play. Some children hate it some love it and l think it should be kept to home so there is no danger of crossing a line.

So every time he is faced with a difficult decision he will choose the easiest option to walk away. This is not the best advice you can give to your child.