To not want to look after my mum

[Overthebow]

My parents moved abroad when I was in my twenties. I don’t have any close by family in the UK and when they left I wasn’t in a good place mentally. They’ve visited a couple of times a year, but we aren’t close now and they don’t have a close relationship with my dc either as they barely know them. We don't speak much. Now it’s just my mum, and although I’ve suggested it she does not want to move back to the UK currently. She does however think she might move back when she’s older so she can get help from family (me), and won’t be elderly alone. She’s even hinted at living with us.

Aibu to think that actually, I don’t really want to help when she’s older and I definitely don’t want her living with us? I could have really used her help and support over the years, especially now when I have young children, but she’s never been interested in helping me.

What do you believe is ‘treating the elderly like garbage’ exactly? You’re also speaking about the older generation like they’re some alien group that popped out of nowhere. We are the future elderly and many of us don’t actually want to be cared for by family when we’re old.

You seem to dislike the idea that it’s primarily down to women to provide care yet happily would see that awful cycle continue on the bases on old world ideals. What about those who didn’t/won’t have children, who’s children will not be able to provide care due to own severe health needs, who for whatever reasons have an irreparable relationship with their children - are you saying they all have put themselves in a position worthy of being treated like ‘garbage’ in the future as they will have no one to meet their care needs?

I will not be repeating myself, countering your straw man arguments, or engaging with your whataboutery. As previously stated, do carry on.

@Bature Define 'decent parents'.

Hi OP, remember there is a whole range of ways to support or help one’s elderly parents. So many people have to try and find some sort of position on this and do their best. The idea of your mum spending many years abroad and then returning in old age to ‘live with you’, is at one fairly extreme end of the spectrum. It would not be an acceptable situation for a lot of people, and it is clearly something you know you don’t want.
So find an opportunity to raise with your mum that she does need to plan for her old age, and that living with you would not be a realistic option because you have your own family to look after and your own life to lead, and anyway you believe she would probably be happier with a different arrangement which would give her a little more privacy and independence and more happiness anyway.
You do not have to have your elderly mother living with you in her old age. You may wish to help and support her, if she wants you to, perhaps help her find a suitable small flat etc or give her a hand if you can with something she needs help with. You might spend time with her frequently or once a month or a couple of times a year. That can all be decided in future so don’t panic about it.
In your situation perhaps don’t reject your mother entirely but keep your options open and try to maintain or build just a small positive relationship with her, this may be to your benefit as well as hers as you may feel more contented about it and less upset. But you always have the right to put your own needs and your own DC etc first.

And (aware that’s bad grammar) I believe that what you say is utter bollocks, @Bature .
Any parent feeling they’re “owed” is shameful. When you decide to have a child, you assume responsibility for them, not vice versa.

@Bature Actually you haven't made anything clear.

Have you been to every country in the world to say this 'awful selfish mindset' only occurs in the UK?

I don't think this is a country thing. There are all sorts of people with different cultures and personal opinions and experiences everywhere.

I live in Brazil and this is what happens here, there's no cultural fixed rule to look after elderly parents. It's a personal decision.

Nobody 'owes' their parent care.

I’m from a cultural where it’s expected you would support your parents in their old age however needed. But even I would struggle with this in your circumstances I think.

From our experience, you don’t know what you will truly do until a situation arises. My DP is closer to their Mum than Dad (parents are together). When DP’s Mum’s health started failing, we asked them to move in with us. We’ve never really had any help from them over the years - financially, with childcare or otherwise - but we wanted to do this for them. DP’s Mum would’ve moved in in a heartbeat but DP’s Dad said no. We’ve space to create annex for them - so they’d still be living independently but with the comfort of us close. After an accident, & due to the immense pressures on the social care system here, we in effect became unpaid carers overnight - there was no choice. DP is an only child. Our lives didn’t revolve around our kids, they revolved around DP’s parents: one in longterm hospital care, one at home. We’d be at their house two to three times a day, administering meds, doing all cooking & cleaning. We repeatedly asked DP’s Dad to come and live with us. Each time he refused. It took 4yrs to eventually get the correct care plan in place (Covid hasn’t helped). We didn’t have a choice other than accept that this was the situation we were in. There was little to no help from any agencies - it was very much that we’d to get on with it.

I would stop suggesting she move back to the UK. Adults often want their elderly parents to live near them but that does remove them from their friends and support network and unless you want your mother to be dependant on you I'd stop suggesting her moving and let her remain where she is.

@Bature Have you seen the average care home? If a large proportion of your elderly are ending up in places like that, then your society is broken. It’s not a grey area.
I have seen a number of care homes and all of them have been perfectly acceptable to outstanding. Mixture of state and privately funded. I'm sure there are worse ones but that means that the "average" one is alright. HTH

Prior to lockdown, I volunteered in care homes for over a decade. I don’t recognise what you’re describing. There’s a crisis of elderly care and homes are severely underfunded. Have been for quite some time. They do their best with what they have, but I certainly wouldn’t consider the average state run home to be a ‘perfectly acceptable’ final home for a parent I loved of there was any reasonable alternative.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/21/staffing-crisis-leaves-many-english-care-home-residents-basic-needs-unmet

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/feb/28/shortfall-of-23bn-a-year-in-englands-care-homes-putting-people-at-risk

Fair enough. I've seen five over the last few years. Three placements were state funded, two privately. I'm sure you've seen much more than me

The problem with many care homes is that due to a money shortage and also a pressure to keep people at home if possible most people in care homes especially nursing homes have either major physical disabilities or moderate to severe dementia.
If I get dementia I would rather be in a home and have my son visit me than have him try and care for me and have told him this

I imagine many of those saying that they would always care for their parents, haven't necessarily faced the reality of that yet. My mum declined into Alzheimer's and I ended up being her main carer. It was absolutely brutal and was made much harder by the fact that my DC were still very young. Our family life was hugely impacted by the amount of care my mum needed. In fact the care itself is only a small part of the story - the constant stress of worrying when or what the next crisis would be and the general 'always on call' aspect is indescribable. So, perhaps some people should think before they assume that they will care for elderly parents because it isn't always about making dinner and throwing a blanket over their knee.

found myself hosing shit off her dressing gown outdoors on Christmas morning in the middle of cooking Christmas lunch whilst DH stopped her from spreading it round the bathroom. The kids were crying because everyone was upset and the dog thought it was all great fun

I think you’ve made it very clear where your feelings lie but couldn’t you have found different words to describe her predicament? It must have been awful for her. For all of you. But mostly her. And she really does deserve a bit of compassion or discretion when describing what happened.

My grandmother has dementia and I help my Mother to look after her so I have full insight into how hard and how all time consuming it is to look after her. Thanks

My grandmother moved to a different country leaving my mum with her dad when she was just 13. The impression I have always got is that this is a very sore subject for my mum and I think it seriously damaged their relationship.

Im not entirely sure how much they saw eachother in the period between my mum being 13-25 (it was an 10 hour plane journey) and for my whole childhood my grandma lived in this other country and we saw her about twice a year where she was a very heavily involved loving grandma when we were with her.

But then she also reached the age where she could no longer live in this other country and had to come home to claim her state pension etc. I was 16 at the time and my brother was 5 and all though she didn’t live with us, she lived round the corner and helped MASSIVELY with childcare for my brother and also giving me lifts places etc. She was actually a bit of a life saver with care for my little brother at least - my parents would have really struggled without her.

I think this period where she helped a lot with the childcare and was really involved in our lives really helped mend the bridges between my mum and her so that then when she got older and needed 24/7 care she moved in with my parents and my mum took care of her until she passed away.

All this to say that although you are not close now and you are obviously hurt by her leaving you, if she did move back to England you never know it could be really useful/helpful with your kids and she might be a wonderful grandmother to them which in turn would help heal your relationship.

If she moves back however and expects you to pick up after her etc and be her carer after having made no effort with you or your children for the past 10 or so years then I would be reluctant to do anything beyond social visits.

OP you do not owe your mother anything.
I will not be looking after my mother if she requires care.
There is absolutely no way in the world we would want our children to be looking after us in our old age.

Don't know why you all put 'UK. Health and Social care is not Same in Scotland. 1 we have free personal care for over 65s who need it.,2 We have many unpaid carers, for kids, spouses and so on, but you must be asked if able and willing.There is a Carers allowance. As far as I know how can anyone be forced to look after parents? in England. They may well have to work, or have other things. Please don't assume the UK covers Heakth, education Law etc, all run in Scotland by ourselves.

YANBU.

A lot of people will try and make you feel bad on here for not wanting to provide care for the "person that gave you life" (even though that was entirely their own choice to do so) but ultimately, you decide what you're comfortable with.

The fact that she's said that she intends on coming back when she needs care (rather than wanting to come back to be near you because you're her daughter) is very telling, indeed.

Also, people shouldn't have to provide care for parents just because they're their parents. Some parents are abusive, narcissistic, toxic messes. This kind of attitude is the attitude that traps people in cycles of abuse because they feel obligated to stay and endure it because of the familial connection.

I'm not saying that's the case with the OP-it doesn't sound like it-but the OP isn't obligated to allow her mother to live with her just because she's now elderly and has woken up and realised she may need help.

There's nothing wrong with the OP's parents choosing to move abroad when the OP was an adult. That is fine. But the OP has said they left at a time when she really needed them and they weren't there for her.

It's also interesting that people say that OP's parents lives shouldn't be bounded to the OP forevermore and yet expect OP to bow down and give her mum whatever she wants out of some obligation because well, her mum birthed her didn't she?

So, the OP's mum who chose to have OP has no obligations to be bound to OP and support her once she's of age, but the OP who didn't choose to be born is obligated forevermore to provide whatever care/support/help her mum demands because well, her mum chose to have her.

Interesting.

I wont be providing care for my parents or dh dad.

I have 2 disabled children to look after but as they're all getting older, it has been mentioned several times about me caring for them. They don't seem to understand that I have no help with my children and I cannot and don't want to take on more caring responsibilities.

I see this a lot of mumsnet. Help your parents out or don't depending on what you're able to do but don't make it be dependent on childcare on a quid pro quo basis.
My parents were good parents to me in hard times. Worked very hard to give me and my siblings opportunities they didn't have. For that reason I'll help them when they/if they need it S they don't have to put a set number of hours babysitting my kids to warrant help. That's just a mumsnet thing.