PT 2 of Who the F**K still thinks voting Tory is a good idea?

[Zonder]

Would be such a shame not to continue the discussion.

Is Labour the only alternative to the Tories in your constituency @SiobhanSharpe?

I'm a bit GC myself, but there is no one to vote for on that issue so the best I can do is vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating my Tory MP in order to contribute to getting the Tories out

Because, despite their recent very effective slogan, their record on protecting women, girls, and children in general is appalling.

Ending Brexit is a huge issue for me. I don't believe our economy can recover until we rejoin the single market and customs union.

But ending Brexit isn't on offer. Again I have no one to vote for on this issue. So the best I can do is vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating my Tory MP in order to do my bit to help get the Tories out.

I don't think k we can in all one hence do any protest votes or ballot spoiling or staying away from the ballot box this time.

If we can see the decline of this country and we don't like it, we are somewhat morally obliged to take the only effective action we can to get the stories out aren't we?

Surely we agree on that since you are ex-Labour?

That would no doubt be why the Conservatives have done nothing over the last 13 years about changing the relevant legislation in favour of women's rights. To say nothing of the fact that, for example, they've been refusing to put into effect legislation to protect women accessing abortion clinics, and that they want to take away basic human rights. They've made it perfectly clear that, if they were elected again, they will be looking seriously at reducing maternity and equality rights, reducing the abortion time limits, and reducing women's rights on divorce. To say nothing of reducing disability and retirement benefits, and provision for children and young people with SEN and disabilities.

Do you really want your vote to help in bringing all that about?

@TooBigForMyBoots thank you! I despair at the “I’m voting Tory because they know what a woman is” brigade. Firstly, no they don’t. Secondly it doesn’t mean they’re the party to vote for as a feminist 😩🤯.

I work in social care and austerity has had a devastating effect on women - so much support that changed our lives for the better has disappeared. To throw the poor under the bus because Sunak made some sound bite comment about a woman being a woman at the party conference is terrifying.

I firmly believe that Labour are moving in the right direction on the toxic trans debate and while I don’t agree with the way Starmer has gone about it, the TRA lobby has become so vitriolic I get why he thought he needed to go the way he did initially.

@Passepartoute missed your post but couldn’t have put it better. They know what a woman is and that her place is bare foot and pregnant at the kitchen sink 🙄

Labour member here & ofcourse after everything thats happened over the last 13 years (but particularly since brexit, & the BJ/ Truss sh!tshows), could never even contemplate voting Tory.
but if the Tories are clearly so dreadful (& in hock to the far right & BNP) why is current Labour tax policy identical, why is the spending commitment to the NHS, social care & education identical and why is a hard brexit, out of the SM & CU, a NO to freedom of movement (costing the economy £40billion pa), & both rowing back on their green agenda suddenly all OK if you stick a red rosette on it?

Sure, I get it, Keir is much more trustworthy & has much more integrity (err..obvs) & the Tories are corrupt, lying, incompetent and in some cases truly nasty (e.g the Rwanda policy)..
we just want to get rid of them..right? And they need replacing....agreed
...but even on immigration there is now barely a fag wrapper between the Tories & Labour.
Surely there must be a Liberal left wing set of policies that would be better off that this Tory nightmare or a Labour party intent on copying everything they stand for beyond scapegoating kids (let's call them "rich kids" for spite) getting VAT added to their key stage maths & English, games, religious studies, pastoral care, HHH etc that will not in reality raise a penny & that will be unacceptable for a closer relationship with the EU, let alone our commitment to the ECHR

I think very few of us agree with everything and everyone in any particular party.

Personally I probably disagree on something with everyone I know and love.

But we also have a lot in common.

It's the same with political parties. Rather than ruling them out, could you look for common ground and rule one in?

My opinion is that if you are unhappy with the state of the country.

1. Don't vote for the party that brought us to this low point

1. Do vote for whoever can win in your constituency in order to actively prevent the Tories getting in again.

1. Look for the positives and agreement and common ground rather than imposing red lines that apply to almost every party we've got.

@Daddybegood i totally agree but they need to be in power to achieve anything at all. I’m sure they don’t agree with half the stuff they’re saying but the debate has become so toxic and they can’t afford to lose the election. Get in, start making small changes and then start the conversation about how we move forward? So much to do, the Tories have done so much damage 😢. I wish we could be bolder but I fear another decade of Tory rule more 😢

My staunch Tory, Brexit-voting brother and sister in law are so disgusted with everything that has happened over the last eight years that they are going to vote Lib Dem at the next election, purely because it's the best chance of getting the Tory out in their constituency. Looking at the link upthread, there is a pretty high chance of the Lib Dems winning in that area.

Woohoo!

Well your excellent post (copied below) will hopefully help anybody who wants to be acquainted with the facts @TooBigForMyBoots

• No they don't. The whole trans shitshow happened on their watch after PM May announced plans for Self ID in 2017.

In 2021 Minister Penny Mordaunt stood at the Despatch Box and said that TMAM and TWAW. This was in response to HoL's recommendations to changes in the Maternity Bill.

In 2022, Con MP Jamie Wallis came out as trans. Con MP, Crispin Blunt reported a woman to her employer for retweeting JKR, which led to a very distressing time for her. The Tory party appointed Jamie Wallis to the Women's and Equality Com. And PM Sunak gave the top job in Education to Gillian Keegan. A woman who couldn't define the word Girl.

Now, in 2023, the Dept of Ed has told schools they will not provide the promised and much needed advice to school regarding pupils presenting as trans. Just last weekend Miriam Cates had to do a mad scramble after it was reported that PM Sunak planned to include the trans inclusive Conversion Therapy Bill in the King's Speech.

Some Tories know what a woman is.
Some Tories believe TWAW and TMAM.
One Tory believes he is becoming a woman.
None of them care about women.*

I understand why people are running away from the Conservatives, I just don’t understand why they are running towards Kier Starmer and the current Labour Party. Which Labour policies do you think will significantly improve your life? Kier Starmer is so staid and conservative (ha!) that I’m not expecting any exciting new policies from him any time soon.

Nope, it's actually a Labour stronghold (small university city, big on cycling 😉) and the LibDems and Greens are also strong.
I wouldn't consider voting for either of those two in a blue moon.
Local Labour MP seems like a decent old cove, but probably toes the party line.
For myself, I am politically homeless for the first time in my life.

@DivingForLove

I think you have highlighted a very important issue here that is often overlooked, women and children continue to be worst affected by poverty.

I work in social care and austerity has had a devastating effect on women - so much support that changed our lives for the better has disappeared. To throw the poor under the bus because Sunak made some sound bite comment about a woman being a woman at the party conference is terrifying.

Knowing what a woman is doesn't heat your house or puts food on the table

Come on, all the parties were taken in by self-ID. The Conservatives are the only ones who have done a partial walk back after the consequences of self-ID started to become clear to them. With Labour and Libdem it is still full steam ahead.

You mean when their Self ID bill started losing them votes in 2017 so May binned it.

Because of our FPTP voting system.

pmk

@verdantverdure I hate the thought of not voting or spoiling my ballot, I shall probably go for the least nutty/toxic independent who is not on the Right.
Someone who wants to ban fireworks and bring back dog licences, perhaps!
(Agree so much about Brexit, btw)

DuncinToffee
Because of our FPTP voting system

Okay, so you just want to get the Conservatives out. You’ll take your chances with Labour but you haven’t got any particular life-improving policies in mind?

I'm with you on the dog licences. I'd be ok with quiet fireworks

"Someone who wants to ban fireworks"

Yes please. Although I'd keep public displays.

I look forward to the election being called and manifestos being published. I hope we don't have to wait until January 25th.

I would vote independent (we have done excellent independents on the council), but the last GE there was only Cons, Lab, Lib Dem and Green to choose from.

25th January 2025 that is.

Too much to hope it would be Jan 2024!

*some

I haven't seen their policies but their 5 missions sound ok and will improve life imo.

But as one poster will point out, I don't have a vote in the GE so it doesn't matter what I think.

What about you? Which party has life improving policies?