Feeling like it's impossible to work as much as my company needs me to

[careerwam]

I've got two children, 1 and 3. I work full time and I'm pretty ambitious but I just can't seem to put extra hours in.

I'm a single parent.

We had a team call with one of our VPs this morning who told us that everyone needs to dig deep if they want to really excel. This means doing extra trainings and work after hours.

I just can't do anything after hours. When I finish work, I get my kids and give them dinner and get them ready for bed. They don't sleep until 8 unfortunately. I then usually fall asleep with them or shortly after, as they are both bad sleepers and keep me up at night.

Then it's up again the next morning and getting them ready for nursery and that's all the time I have at the moment. I don't know how I can give any more, but I know I need to if I want to get to where I want to be.

I know other mums can do it, but I'm just so tired.

Any advice ?

Find a job that doesn't ask you to do unpaid work. That's an absolute cheek.

That’s outrageous - it’s not ok to expect people to work outside paid hours regularly. On occasion, maybe, but your VP is a pisstaker.

What do you do? Unless earning PROPER money I just wouldn’t countenance this.

Err hang on that's utter crap they are expecting free labour from you and dangling a vague carrot in front of you in exchange. No promises made.
Look for another job where they don't try and exploit people.

Are you being paid enough for that expectation to even resonate with you? I’m reminded of the quiet quitting video where the employee decided to match his working hours/effort to his remuneration.

While I don't think your boss is being reasonable to expect everyone to work unpaid, one thing struck me - you say your children are poor sleepers.
Have you looked at the Ferber sleep training book?

I’m a teacher solo parent and it’s like this.

I have pangs of guilt for not volunteering for all the out of hours stuff that builds your career.

But I’ve been in the game for a long time before children and I know what I have to do urgently to keep afloat and employed and the rest can just wait because my kid is more important than everything else.

Rankles seeing the people with family support or no responsibility whizz through the ranks a bit though, but I’ve learned to live with it.

And I also go to bed mostly when my non-sleeper does, and up at 5 for a long commute, so fuck em.

I agree with all the other comments but even if there was any substance in his comments (which I am sure there isn’t) Work is a marathon you are going to be doing this for 35years plus. Plenty of time for ambition and moving forward . At this time you have young children who need you as well. Concentrate and enjoy them otherwise you will burn out and be no good to either work or your children

I agree with all the above so far. Especially remember this is not the time to be forging ahead with your career. It's the time to be looking after your tiny children.

It's just from one paragraph about your life but one reason your kids might be poor sleepers is because they are over-tired. What time do you get home in that they only get to sleep at 8? What time do they have to get up in the morning? They might not be getting enough sleep.

Well first of all, where you already are sounds pretty darn amazing to me. You work full time and are a single parent to a 1 & 3 year old. You're right there is no magic extra time to be found. Unfortunately most places do expect senior people to work long hours.

I'd suggest getting a mentor at work, ideally a more senior female with family as well. I'd also suggest sideways rather than upways moves at the minute if you stay with same company. Shows you want to build on your skills and makes you a lot more promotable and able to get another job in the future.

Oh and I bet that VP isn't a single DP to toddlers.

I don’t subscribe to the work all hours- it’s about working well in your work hours. Don’t feel unrealistic pressure.

I'm actually in a very similar position OP - management level professional job full time - single parenting 2 year old twins and an older child. By the time they all asleep it's close to 9pm and then I'm up at 6am to get everyone fed and dressed and out the door by 730.

I broke down infront of my boss recently as I just can't be a good parent and good employee at the same time. I've basically said until the twins start school my career and ambitions are on hold as otherwise i can see myself just ending up being signed off which isn't going to help my employer either. I feel
Relieved now that I've actually said it out loud.

Agree that unless you are paid £££ this may not be the job for you. There are plenty of employers who do not expect this and yet have opportunities for career progression.

If they really don't want people with family commitments (and some employers don't - I've worked for a couple) then maybe its time to consider your options.

That feeling of always being on the back foot and never doing enough is a horrible one.

Yeah, find a job that will pay you for the work you do and not try to guilt you into unpaid labour with bullshit about "excelling".

Sadly, they have to be hunted out - but they do exist! And in the meantime, protect yourself and ignore the bullshit.

How much money do you think would warrant working after hours then ?

A decent employer would allow progression in your normal hours without having to break your back. Find a better employer

It really depends on your career - being advised to "just" change employer or career just isn't that simple for many of us who have specialised professional jobs

It depends on lots of things but if you are staying there rather than looking around because they pay more than other places then that's a choice you make. However if they pay market rates and you could do what you do elsewhere then maybe look what else is out there.

Bloke says you need work for free to up my career prospects ........

The VP will be on bigger salary and benefits from your unpaid work more than you do.

Do the maths on what you get paid
7.5 hours 5 days a week for 52 weeks
Or
1950 hours

If you are working 1 hour overtime for each non-holiday week you give your company back 6.4 days.

Take the training if it helps you in your career but only aim to work your contract hours unless you are getting direct recognition for your input.

It depends. You might need to put in some extra hours on £30k occasionally. You might be expected to log in on hols and over the weekend on £40k or £80k. But to consistently do, what? The occasional 14 hour day several days a week - £100+?
An extra four hours a day and at weekends too? No money in the world.

But saying all that some people on £25k do 70 hour weeks and some on £170k log off at 5pm.

You can't do it op and I'd let them try and fire you - sex discrimination. Keep a note of all of these mad requests and discuss with your manager. 'i am of course willing to put in the extra time if there's an emergency or crisis but I can not work xx extra hours every day'.

I just left a £48k job which expected blood sweat and tears with no complaints.

Moved to another job for the exact same money and no expectation outside the 9-5 (and hybrid working which wasn't on offer at my previous role).

Honestly? If I wasn’t earning in excess of £70k - £80k I wouldn’t consider working out of hours regularly.

I earn less than this and I’m PT but mid/senior management. If I have to work additional hours for a specific task I get TOIL or paid - eg I have just finished Audit and I work an additional day a week in the month leading up so have this full week off taking no annual leave.

However if you have to work additional hours to complete normal work on a regular basis then their is either an issue with workload or the worker.

My personal issue is my manager values me but would like me FT which I’m not willing to do at present, so we acknowledge at points I’ll work more and then recoup the time later. If I worked FT I would easily meet all my obligations.

I wouldn't say that other Mums do it, without having a co-parent, nanny or very involved GPs. This isn't a stage in your life were you can give more without your children having other secure carers.

I feel exactly the same way, I have a 3 YO DD and another on the way. I’m not single but have a husband in a similarly demanding role. I’ve always been very ambitious but right now I don’t think I could take a step up without a detrimental impact on my family life, I’ve found it less stressful now I’ve made that decision for myself. I’ve still got a lot of years of work ahead of me so I’m hoping a few years more staying at this level won’t be too detrimental. As someone above has said I’d consider a sideways move to build my skill base and make me a more attractive candidate when I’m ready to move up.

Depending on where you are in the company it’s worth pointing out to somebody that the requirement for out of hours working will discriminate against anybody with caring responsibilities and reduce diversity in senior levels. You could just say this to your line manager, or to somebody senior with EDI responsibility in the company if you feel brave enough. I’d phrase it in a non personal way as it will affect lots of other people too.