Feeling like it's impossible to work as much as my company needs me to

[careerwam]

I've got two children, 1 and 3. I work full time and I'm pretty ambitious but I just can't seem to put extra hours in.

I'm a single parent.

We had a team call with one of our VPs this morning who told us that everyone needs to dig deep if they want to really excel. This means doing extra trainings and work after hours.

I just can't do anything after hours. When I finish work, I get my kids and give them dinner and get them ready for bed. They don't sleep until 8 unfortunately. I then usually fall asleep with them or shortly after, as they are both bad sleepers and keep me up at night.

Then it's up again the next morning and getting them ready for nursery and that's all the time I have at the moment. I don't know how I can give any more, but I know I need to if I want to get to where I want to be.

I know other mums can do it, but I'm just so tired.

Any advice ?

Can't speak for the PP but having been there - yes I love the work (most of the time!) and the intellectual challenge it brings plus the constant new learning it brings. Others love the business challenge or get the satisfaction from the challenge of the race and being "top".

When my children were small career breaks and flexible working didn't exist unless we made it for ourselves - I set up a small company to work independently for about a decade before moving back into corporate, as did many women in my sector at this time. This meant I could work more flexibly and often from home. Ironically when I went back onto the corporate ladder I found the range and variety of my experience outside of the ladder meant I ended up pretty much were I would have been staying on it, however you can't assume that in all cases.

I got through this period by having primarily only two things in life - family and work. All other interests and hobbies took a back seat during these years but that is easier when you like the work.

Lads. 100k is not crazy super wild money and does NOT have to mean regular out of hours work. In tech, in sales, in IT, in lots of industries that’s a relatively normal wage if you‘re mid career and full time as it sounds OP is.

Indeed. Also with the extra tax it means less than you think.

I take home £5k a month- not six figures though five quite nice ones. My boss (CEO) takes home £5.5k a month and is on six figures. That said, he doesn't do stupid hours but obviously is more full on and high profile than my job. If I apply for it I want to see more of a difference in salary TBH.

Where you work makes a vast difference, loads of people are doing long hours in schools and hospitals for a lot less than six figures. But at the same time it doesn't have to mean you work yourself into the ground for a good salary either.

I think at this point you need to just turn up and do your job but not expect to climb up the ladder, they won't be this small for long, although it feels endless at this stage. Give it a year or two and they will sleep better, you will have more energy too.

It's tricky finding the right balance but you are doing a great job!

The thing is that no amount of money buys you more than 24 hours in a day. So then it becomes about how you schedule those hours.

If you are completely meeting your job spec and hitting all targets he can do one. You don't have to give them more than you are paid to do just to make him look good. However IF you're slipping because you're tired and stressed then maybe you need to think.

Also if I earn good money, what's the point if I never have time to spend it?

Money is for spending and having as much fun as possible.

I have only read your posts so apologies if I'm repeating things. As the main breadwinner, working as a consultant for large companies who pay me well, I do understand what you're saying. A few practical suggestions that work for me (sort of - it's not perfect!

Have a look at what you're doing during the day. Can you cut back some of your "normal" work or do it a bit more effectively/efficiently to free up time for doing some of this extra training etc? It may well be that you can't, but even when I worked in an investment bank, I found I had to learn how to squeeze those two hours out during office hours when usually those would just be quieter hours, if that makes sense. On this level, you need to be prioritising high value/high profile work. If you find you are spending 3 hours a week on repetitive, low value tasks, either stop doing them or find someone else to do them.

If you already have a nanny you use occasionally, consider arranging for her to do nursery collection, dinner and bed time at least once a fortnight, maybe once a week. Use this as your "late" night. My sister, with two young kids and a big city job had a nanny and in her contract was that her hours included one day where she worked until at least 10pm.

Then, this one is a bit "bait and switch" - but when you DO the extra, you need to highlight it. Some people are really really good at this - in a team meeting they'll mention it or they'll email their boss to specificy it. It's a bit cringey, but actually, I think it's very very possible that your boss doesn't even necessarily see what you're doing and/or achieving.

I did those sort of hours when I was on £90 + 15% bonus

I know only pull a late night occasionally if there's a big project otherwise I do my 35-40 hours and pick my kids up from school on a Friday for £50k. It's a lot nicer!

You're very naive if you think that a job with salary of a hundred thousand pounds a year doesn't involve demands on your time outside contracted hours!

By all means, say you refuse to work the odd evening and see how long you stay employed. Maybe step down to a lower role and let someone who's willing to meet the demands of your job for the same (frankly enormous) salary have a go. You're paid three times the UK average, it should hardly be a surprise that it's a busy job.

@Dguu6u you said it much better than me

This!

A few years ago this was me on 24K! Can you believe that? Then I met DH and he made me realise how crazy it was in comparison to him, (high earner, and did very very little work). I was working myself to the bone for a scumbag CEO just like OP, for peanuts.

I kicked up a stink and ended up getting a really nice payrise, but in the end it wasnt enough since my opinion of the company was soured and how much it was sinking into my personal life regardless of payrise (every christmas, EVERY weekend, every bank hol, regular 10pm evenings).

I left, now work for myself and earn more than double what i was previously on, for half as much work.

Life is too short, there are plenty of better opportunities, job sectors and work places for you OP.

In regard to your update/salary, and the fact youre in London, I dont think 100k is enough to be doing consistent regular overtime at the sacrifice of your kids. And your VP shouldnt make you feel bad about it.

Youre already doing extremely well with your two DC OP, don't let this scummy VP make you feel any other way.

Mimimoto she is on 30k. I don't think working a few extra hours at 4am is going to make her 100k realistically.

I am so glad to be working where I am.

We get told off if seen online when on leave.

Flexible working if you need to work around sick kids or just normal doctors/dentists appointments.

There are occasions when we have to work out of normal hours, but we get time in lieu and they're strict in making you take it.

We have a set amount of work to get through each fortnight and as long as that gets done, or there was emergency unplanned work that took its place they are happy.

This. Plenty of folks in London like myself who earn average or below national average salaries and somehow manage to eek out a living.

I had a job like this and, you're not going to like this answer, but I left it because I didn't feel it was compatible with being a parent. All the other senior people were men with wives who did most of the home stuff. I couldn't leave my DH to do all the home stuff because he has an intense job himself plus a chronic health condition to manage.

I think you need to assess what the consequences of not "going the extra mile" are. Will you just progress slower? Or are you worried you'll end up losing your job? You might be ok just progressing slowly at this point in your life but obviously if job security is at risk that's a different assessment. Alternatively, you can pay for additional help. I'm not sure there are any other options.

Is there a reapsn for this extra training? Is it corporate rubbish or mandatory for role?

You need to have a full time nanny rather than use the nursery so that you can have much more flexibility. They should also have some responsibility for covering night waking, too. Your employers are almost certainly thinking that, on the money they're paying, you should be able to get care of this nature.

There are two options.

put in extra and progress.

stay as you are.

Right now your life means it’s the latter. That is what it is. We cannot magic time for you? If you don’t have it you don’t have it.

You are on mumsnet right now though, during the working day. So there’s some time.

@careerwam

Block out two hours of your diary on a Friday afternoon (or morning) to do a bit of training. I find this to be a quiet time these days.

Also be very kind to yourself, right now you have other priorities and work is just one thing amongst many in life. You've spent a lot of time in the fast lane of your career to date, nothing wrong with being in the slow lane. Later when they are a bit older and the sleep is better you head back to the fast lane.

Delegate any tasks to someone junior if you can, or someone who wants the stretch/new experience so you can free yourself up for other stuff.

Decide on max 1-2 key things to achieve as personal training this year and stick to it. Anything else above that is a bonus.

I'm in a v similar boat to you but I also know it is a marathon not a sprint and will still have 30+ years of work to do. In context one or two slow years is not the be all and end all.

@cansu , the OP is on £100K, not £30k.

Another thought - I'd actually consider ditching nursery in favour of a nanny. That way she will prepare food for the DC before you even stop working (ideally, a nanny who is happy to prepare an extra portion for you). This will make the end of your day a lot less frazzled, and allow you to enjoy time with your DC. And as I said before, agree that she stays with them and puts them to bed at least once a week.

I'd rather have mine in nursery all year round than rely on a single person. Been there and done that, no thanks.

Hey OP, I’m in a similar position and it takes a balance. The decision is, do you move to a 9-5 role and get paid less/ less progression or find the time? For me, I needed the cash so I ‘invested’ in a sleep course for my kids (basically videos telling me how to get the to sleep - £300), i have a cleaner twice a week, gardener and I use gousto/ pre prepared/ cook! Meals a lot (which are expensive) and I buy extra of uniform / clothes nursery clothes so I can get them out of the door by 7.15, this means I’m back and working for 7.45. Kids are picked up bang on 5, no stress dinner, bath and bed absolutely no later than 7.20. I work until 8pm ish then watch something on tv and in bed by 9. It’s not perfect and it’s expensive but it works for now. Most women with children who I work with have a nanny and/ or home help to do washing / cooking/ tidying.

Thats the trade off I think

You have 2 very young children. They are your priority, not your career right now.
You choose to have them. No it’s not fair that other people and men get to breeze through. But who said ever life was fair? They didn’t ask to be born but now they are it’s them that you should be focussing on and if that means making adjustments to your job or work expectations then so be it.

I think this is hitting you so hard because your life is currently totally full and you literally have nothing else to give. Definitely a recipe for burnout if you aren't able to create a bit of slack somewhere (and not just creating a bit of time to squeeze in your company's extra demands, which will probably always expand beyond the time available?).

It sounds like lack of sleep should be number 1, 2 and 3 on your priority sort-out list. Have a think about what would make a difference - having your nanny in for a week to settle your children between 8 and midnight? or once a week regularly? Getting expert advice to improve their sleeping? Getting an au-pair or baby sitter in some evenings as suggested by others?

Career progression stuff - I can't say I have any direct relevant experience so this is just on things I've read. At your stage you probably don't want your income to gradually increase, you are in a range where the effective tax rate on additional earnings can be extremely high especially while you are using childcare. So you need to be aware of the thresholds for childcare benefits in particular (and also reduction of personal allowance), and aim to keep your income minus pension deductions below this until either your children are both in school, or your income is sufficiently above the thresholds for it to be no detriment. Depending on the culture at your company / in your industry, I wonder if making that point about progression of earnings could actually be worth doing to help your argument that for another 3 years you need to just tread water.

Alternatively, push back - tell your bosses, if you need X extra hours of training done, I will need X extra hours of childcare paid for so that I can do it at a time when I am awake and alert.

Good luck navigating the right pathway for you and your children.

I did work crazy hours when my kids were younger and I’m a single mum. I would literally get them to bed and get up again at 10pm to work until finished. Then back up at 6:30 am again.

it is very tough. Luckily with Covid wfh etc, things are much better. I also took a step down at work for better work life balance