Feeling like it's impossible to work as much as my company needs me to

[careerwam]

I've got two children, 1 and 3. I work full time and I'm pretty ambitious but I just can't seem to put extra hours in.

I'm a single parent.

We had a team call with one of our VPs this morning who told us that everyone needs to dig deep if they want to really excel. This means doing extra trainings and work after hours.

I just can't do anything after hours. When I finish work, I get my kids and give them dinner and get them ready for bed. They don't sleep until 8 unfortunately. I then usually fall asleep with them or shortly after, as they are both bad sleepers and keep me up at night.

Then it's up again the next morning and getting them ready for nursery and that's all the time I have at the moment. I don't know how I can give any more, but I know I need to if I want to get to where I want to be.

I know other mums can do it, but I'm just so tired.

Any advice ?

Doesn't need to, but could do, if she wants her 100K p.a.

I've RTFT now, interesting how people went from "don't do any extra" and "tell them it's discrimination" to "suck it up" once you revealed your salary. Typical on mumsnet!

IMO at that type of salary you are paid to deliver results not for the hours you work. That's why you generally get more autonomy and flexibility. So I'd still say pay it no attention, or, if you have to do it, steal some time from other work activities, cut some corners if you can and do it in normal working hours.

I earn over £100k and don't do any more than standard 9-5 hours because of the above: I'm paid for results, not to be present for certain hours, as I suspect you are too OP. I also agree with anyone who says can you throw some money at your home life if needed and if it'll help. Good luck!

Lads. 100k is not crazy super wild money and does NOT have to mean regular out of hours work. In tech, in sales, in IT, in lots of industries that’s a relatively normal wage if you‘re mid career and full time as it sounds OP is.

Don’t work for free, tune into your value, remember what is important and that you can have anything you want but you can’t always have it when you want it. Find some allies in your business who believe the same and if there aren’t any then get out and find a business that recognises that home and work don’t stand in isolation.
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Agreed.

I’m in a similar boat but my 3 children are 10 years older.

Yes you do need to go above and beyond. That means working effectively and efficiently. Get definitive goals and meet them. Exceed 2-3 of those goals by a manageable amount.

Your childcare arrangements are insufficient and I highly recommend an au pair in addition to core hours at nursery. I swear by my au pair and pick girls who are recent graduates so 22-25 years old looking for a gap year experience. You need to keep the nanny for overnights when you travel.

My advice is to dig in because children get more experience as they get older. Sit that VP down and ask him for a plan on how to get to £175k (because you need weekly boarding for two children). Sit silently and wait for him to give you those goals. Then reach them. Go back and ask for the £175k. If the VP scoffs at you, look for a new role that will take you there. Don’t waste your time on people who don’t show up for you.

I was up at 4:30am this morning and I’m up at this time every morning. I worked until 8:30pm last night. I’m always available. My children come first and yes I do a lot of child related things at work, but I also do work related things at home and with my children. My son knows how to price a bond at age 10 and knows more about yield curves than he should. There are worse things to happen to a child. 10 years ago I was earning £50k with 2 children and it cost me more than that to work. Today I make £300k+ and I have a slew of people who want me on their team. No joke, this year the team of 6 I’m part of has made over £10m net in the toughest environment since 2008/2009.

It’s not easy. When it gets tough I think about the opportunities I’ve been able to provide my children. They live in a nice home, go to good schools, travel to family multiple times a year and have the opportunity to explore activities and hobbies, finding out what they enjoy and build skills in areas that interest them.

*expensive not experience! Bloody spell check driving me crazy.

As children get old they get more experienced in finding ways to spend your money. My son at 10 is now in men’s shoes. The horror of the cost.

Unpaid after hours work is normally suggested by the 'big boss' so the 'big boss' can get a pat on the back (and pay rise) when performance looks good. Nothing is given to the minions actually doing the work. Unless there's something in it for me such as helping my team, or a pay rise/promotion, it would be a big fat no from me.

Agreed - especially in london !

Don’t worry, there may be super human people who can do it while being a single parent but I never met one.
i work in tech, i do put extra hours in and work after putting a child to bed, but

• im not single (although my husband has a similar job and also works late, it is still easier sharing the load!)
• i have only one DC similar age to yours
• we had nanny helping out some evenings
• and of course we had weekly cleaner
• and still I had a massive burnout

now im on mat leave with second one and short of getting full time nanny and cleaner more often im not sure how we are going to cope when I’m back to work

Sorry pressed send too early. Anyway, there are some uber organised people who can do it all but they are incredibly rare. Most have help (husband in less pressured job, nannies and other helpers, family etc)
Dont judge yourself by impossible standards please

@Aintnosupermum I would never want your lifestyle for myself so genuinely interesting to hear from people who do it! Good for you!

Curious - Do you have an actual interest in what you do? Or do you have to grit your teeth and just make yourself do it, as I do with my job? That’s what I can’t comprehend, the having to make myself do something I have no innate interest in, for 60+ hours a week, just for money, when I have everything I need more or less already. I always want more freedom tbh.

Situations that I have seen

Some people, work extra hours & this becomes expected, the default
How many teachers do you hear that do lots of extra work at home. However, this applies to other industries as well

Some people work their normal hours, plus on call, with call outs & this becomes unsustainable & unsafe

Some people work extra hours, but someone else will be chosen as the "golden worker" & this causes dissatisfaction within teams

Some people cruise along & do nothing extra forever

Your manager needs to look at working smarter, not longer. Perhaps there are some processes that can be automated or simplified ?

There needs to be a balance between work & home life

Goodness. I feel the same way and I’m not a single parent. It’s exhausting. I pushed myself up the career ladder and now at a place where I’m knackered. You’ve got yourself this far, and they’ll want to help you achieve. I would explain to this person who said about training videos that you are most effective during working hours and is there anything else he can suggest to assist with any training needs as evenings are not possible. Show willing but be very honest about what you can commit. It’s probably been a fleeting comment anyway. Not one I would worry about. As long as you are meetings your targets etc.

there are two types of jobs, some require specified paid hours and some (the more lucrative jobs) require what ever it takes to get the job done. Additional training is development and if it’s a requirement of you they’ll work with you to make it work.

Can you get your nanny you occasional use to do several evenings a week, put kids to bed so you are not shattered and can do these trainings?
there was a period both me and my husband had to work hard last year, we only survived because nanny did most nursery pick ups and we got home by 8 am to put DD to bed when she was ready (one of us anyway) - gave us 3 extra hours every day between 5 and 8

@Aintnosupermum

thats very impressive. Did you get any coaching/mentoring to work smarter?

Men do work long hours as well but most of my male SMs and Directors have a woman acting as primary carer of their children. None of them are full time single parents to toddlers.

Men working long hours most commonly rely on their DCs' mother to be the default parent and provide the bulk of planned and unplanned childcare needs. Women doing it end up spending ridiculous amounts of their salary on additional wraparound care exactly as described by @Aintnosupermum

Somehow none of this stops some of the men who are benefiting from women's labour from rocking up to the parenting networking events and lecturing everyone else on "work life balance". I just roll my eyes.

You need a career change or different job . You wait till the kids are unwell at school and all their appointments. Will be hard spreading yourself so thinly

Read about Prof Claudia Golding and greedy jobs. She's a Harvard professor and has a Nobel prize for economics. She studied the link between gender pay gap and greedy jobs. Being a parent is a greedy job on its own. It's demanding and you have to drop everything for it. You can't have two greedy job at the same time.

I work full time and I don't have a greedy job. I log off at the end of the day. Some younger members of the team do extra trainings after hours. I do them on Friday afternoon. There must be jobs out there that are fulfilling, full time and pay decently but aren't greedy.

I don't know anyone that has ever said, " I wish that I had spent more time at work"

Most people look forward to spending their free time with family, friends, hobbies, relaxing, holidays etc

@VisitorfromAbroad2

oh yeah? But I bet there are people who said:
i wish I could have saved more for my retirement
I wish I could afford buying my own home
I wish I could financially help my children
I wish I could afford to travel more

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I don't think any amount of money justifies you working extra hours. You have a contract that states how much you earn for the number of hours worked. Why should you have to give them time for free outside of those contracted hours? If they expect you to do extra hours that's no problem..but how are they paying you, overtime or TOIL.

Companies are often very good at making sure you're doing all your hours because they're paying you for that time but not so good at seeing it the other way.

It's hard when you're feeling pressured and other people are doing it but you are doing exactly what you're supposed to according to your contract. Document anything where you're being asked to do things outside of your contract incase they try to penalise you for it.

To be fair, they're not saying you have to work extra to get your work done. They're saying that if you want to progress and do better, you need to train etc. That isn't an unrealistic expectation.

Don't be deluded. £100K puts you in the top 2% of earners in the UK. If you don't like your job, get another one.

An employer that expects you to work outside of your contracted hours 'if you want to progress within the company' may be in breach of The Equality Act. It would count as indirect discrimination against parents.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/2/2/7