Feeling like it's impossible to work as much as my company needs me to

[careerwam]

I've got two children, 1 and 3. I work full time and I'm pretty ambitious but I just can't seem to put extra hours in.

I'm a single parent.

We had a team call with one of our VPs this morning who told us that everyone needs to dig deep if they want to really excel. This means doing extra trainings and work after hours.

I just can't do anything after hours. When I finish work, I get my kids and give them dinner and get them ready for bed. They don't sleep until 8 unfortunately. I then usually fall asleep with them or shortly after, as they are both bad sleepers and keep me up at night.

Then it's up again the next morning and getting them ready for nursery and that's all the time I have at the moment. I don't know how I can give any more, but I know I need to if I want to get to where I want to be.

I know other mums can do it, but I'm just so tired.

Any advice ?

What is the training that he expects you to do? Is this online/ in-house company training modules which are required? Or is this additional professional training?
You have control of your diary, if it’s the former, can you schedule time to do in-house training during normal hours?

Your VP is pushing hard. Can you discuss with him why ?

I think it's expected to put in extra effort and time for that salary tbh.

Are the children ever with their father, and could you do your training then?

I think you're presenting this a little binary. You currently say you're doing nontraining and occasional OOH working. What about if you committed to doing one training webinar per week or per fortnight?

I get being tired; it's usual for me to be out of the house by 6am then have the dinner and evening routine to do solo. Sometimes I have an hour's nap or a bath straight after the kids go to bed and then I do some work from 9pm-10 or 11pm. It wouldn't work for everyone but it does for me because if I went to bed at 9pm, I'd be wide awake again by midnight.

I'd be tempted to write to your employers saying it's effectively sex discrimination to ask people to work after hours, as many women have childcare duties then.

Youre doing your contracted hours. You shouldn’t be doing more hours for free.

I did that in my old job as I thought that was industry I was in. Now I rarely work more than my contracted 35 hours and if I did I’d just take that time back the following week.

Hmmmmm, he sounds like he has zero clue about the realities of having small children. Probably because he had wifey at home back in the day.

I’d give a great big fake smile, say yessir nosir three bags full sir fake a bit of enthusiasm (maybe do whatever training video he is currently in a lather about) but pretty much ignore and do exactly as you were doing before.

£100k changes it I think, I'd expect to watch some training vids in my time if I was earning £100k and looking to progress further.

Writing a couple of emails and sorting a couple of things in our systems is one thing- doing training stuff is different for me as the focus has to be there and I don't focus well in the evenings. I could try to occasionally do some training in the morning before the kids wake up- that's more to my time scale as I'm a morning person.

However, I really really need my sleep. It depends on the week in terms of sleeping, some weeks are better and I can see myself doing more and other weeks ads worse and I will find it hard to manage. I still get woken at least twice by my little one and if I'm unlucky my older one will also be awake. So for example last night, I was up from around 3-5 am. That's not unusual for me. Of course I'm shattered by 8 pm and just want to sleep then.

Though in principle I'm against working hours without pay, I have to agree

Whether "normal" for the industry or not, realistically such a package does make a difference to what's expected, and if that doesn't suit it may be that a different job would be more appropriate

Unless what's being asked is beyond all reason of course, in which case I'd expect to negotiate - though I wouldn't be mentioning childcare issues since they're not the employer's responsibility

Oh ok. Suck it up then ? Thanks

This. It shouldn't be a regular thing.
Yes, maybe once in a while, or for a specific deadline, but essentially, they're trying to get away with not having enough staff, and paying you for only 50% of your time, or the like.

On your salary yes you do need to be putting in more than a standard 9-5 and you need to be buying in support - much more than a cleaner - so that you can get on top of work and also free up some time for yourself.

Not a single parent but my DH would work late (midnight) in the office every night so i used to get a succession of 6th formers / 1st year uni students to come 4 - 7.30pm daily to help with bedtime and supper etc. in west London I believe they’re called “5 o’clock girls”! Or a babysitter a couple of evenings a week.

I think with children this age and a FT job you can't expect to do more than the bare minimum in both roles, and doing this as a single parent practically makes you wonder woman.
Expecting to put in the effort at work for career progression while you have preschool children can only be detrimental to them.

Can you hire a sitter to do bath & bed one night per week & do your training then? Who watches the kids during the day while you're working?

Nursery and if I'm working away I have a nanny who helps

Yeah on that type of salary I'd fully expect to having to go above and beyond. If you don't want to put in extra, are you not happy to settle on your £100k while the kids are young and you're struggling with it? Something has to give in the end, whether it's a temporary halt in progression, or whether you hire a nanny or similar.

You shouldn't be asked to work extra unpaid hours whether you have children or not.

Sorry - I've now seen your salary. Yes; sorry, I'd expect it as an acceptable expectation at over £100k.

In your situation, I'd see if I could have a nanny to do dinner and bedtime a couple of evenings a week, so you could have another 3-4 hours working time on those days.

It took me so long to post this that I crossed posts with the one about your salary. But I’ll leave it as it is below!

So, they want you to complete work-related training for free, in your own time, and sacrifice your family time to do it. A clear sign of a badly run, piss-taking business. How dare they expect this routinely under the thinly disguised threat of lack of promotions etc?!

Work-related training should be done during hours when the business you are making money for is paying you, not unpaid in your free time when you have every right to go home to have a life.

It’s discriminatory against anyone who has children to care for because they simply won’t be able to fail to be at home in time for pick up, meals, baths etc.

Never forget that the VPs who think about the workplace all day long and love giving up their time to be at the office are the ones who actively choose to do that and the ones who take home the highest salaries. If they can’t afford to pay to train their staff then they need to cut their own salaries…

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvKmmkBgQts/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

you need to watch this woman !

Just set your boundaries and state ‘I’m only able to work my contracted hours’. If they try to make things tricky for you and try to get rid of you, that’s constructive dismissal.

YANBU. If they regularly need people to work long hours then they should employ more people.

Brilliant!!!

There shouldn't be an expectation of doing more than contracted hours even if you are highly paid. Otherwise this means women can't do well paid jobs, people who have caring responsibilities can't do highly paid jobs, only men with a wife to do all the wifework and childcare for them can be leaders and earn well.

Employ enough people, pay them properly. You are highly paid for your skills and experience, not to work yourself into the ground and go to an early grave.