Who are the breastfeeding mafia?!?!?

[PlumPudd]

I often see threads on Mumsnet where people talk about feeling pressured to breastfeed by the breastfeeding mafia or shamed for not breastfeeding. And I’m curious…

Who are these breastfeeding mafiosos?? If you felt pressured to breastfeed, can you explain where this tangible pressure actually came from? Especially when, if you do chose to formula feed, you’ll be doing what the vast majority of UK women do, so you won’t be in the minority and will be surrounded by other women doing the same. Is it just that being told “breast is best” is upsetting if that’s not what you’re choosing?

Why (if the breastfeeding mafia are so powerful) are they also so unsuccessful with breastfeeding rates in the UK among the lowest in the developing world? My experience with the so called mafia (aka midwives, doctors, council funded breastfeeding support teams) is that they were either not there, too busy to help or repeatedly told me to formula feed if I so much as asked for help with a latch.

I 100% believe it’s women’s choice how they feed their babies, but that that choice needs to be informed by accurate information provided by scientists and healthcare professionals, (aka breast is best but formula is fine) and that women need to be supported in whatever they chose, meaning proper lactation consultants and follow up care for mothers that want to try breastfeeding and guidance on paced bottle feeding and techniques for those who chose formula - and both for those who combi.

Full term breastfeeding refers to breastfeeding until the child stops by themselves i.e. what would naturally happen if you didn't actively wean them. Also called natural term breastfeeding. It's an alternative to the term "extended" breastfeeding which many mothers don't like because it implies an arbitrary time e.g. 1 year is the normal amount and anything after that is "extended" which implies unusual. It's just two ways of framing it, both of which seemingly upset one group of people!

Yes it doesn’t really matter when you stop either, but FF mums are told to continue to use formula, rather than ordinary milk, for a year. I think that might be quite recent advices so there’s probably some logic behind it.

Aaand here's a member of the FF mafia!

Not really ff mafia, as this post is talking about extended bf. After a year babies don’t need to ff - they can just have cows milk.

In my area there’s definitely a ‘set’ of women who breastfeed toddlers, and don’t we all know about. I’m not sure a 3yo needs to be fed on demand during the day so yes, it does seem like a bit of a show.

I should add - with DS2, my community midwives (who did extended visiting for 24 days due to other medical conditions I have) were excellent this time including in regard to breastfeeding. They were informative but non judgemental. They answered all my questions and were enormously helpful wirh breastfeeding and bottle feeding, including helping me with which bottles to buy to help DD2 with his bottle latch.

PFB lost 12% of her birth weight - after soem terrible advice from the supposedly bf friendly hospital I'd stop in over night - community MW were brilliant got us sorted and on track bf - even gave advice for co-sleeping as they want skin to skin, feeding or me pumping and if she was awake - and across team popped in serval times a day to check we were on track - that why I could bf.

20 months later with second that service had been cut to the bone and was severely short staffed.

When we move and had another realised how good previous service was the new service there was all based around the services needs and found patients an inconvenience - barely saw MW after birth and there was certainly no bf support.

Even when there are services that help with bf rates they are very vulnerable to cuts - along with rest of maternity services. Then other budgets and departments see over populations bf would reduce impact on their budgets so push it all of which leave mothers being told bf is best then given fuck all support when it's not easy.

I BF all mine between 12 and 22 months - more each baby - but few knew as I did it at home only and rapidly learnt to not hear questions when people asked was I still bf as people were asking to have a go usually.

The WHO says there are benefits to long term BF they recommend 2 years - lower rates of infections and protection against type I diabetes.

I think with more support I could have managed 2 years or at least less negativity directed at me for bf as I did find it very wearing - even post 12 months as it felt like we had to hide it.

Okay then, the anti-BF mafia. It never fails to amaze me how many formula-feeding mothers expect sensitivity about their feeding method, yet have absolutely no qualms about criticising mothers for BF.

I don't care how long you breastfeed for. But WHO recommend up to 2 years as most parents in the world have poor access to totally clean water. WHO advice takes the majority of the world's babies into account in its guidance. For babies in rich countries once they are weaned, there are no health benefits for breastfeeding, although there may be other benefits.

PP poster was criticising mothers breastfeeding 3 year olds. I’m not saying she is right to do so, but it’s pretty irrelevant. By the time your child is that age, it’s unlikely you’re all that bothered what other people think. Whereas, mothers of newborns are far more vulnerable and sensitive.

Late to the party but I’m always reluctant to say I did breastfed and don’t usually say unless asked, because people seem to interpret it as a criticism of their choice to formula feed (if that’s what they did). It’s really difficult to celebrate breastfeeding without insulting the vast majority who formula fed.

CecilyP · Today 18:07

ZoeCM · Today 17:35

Okay then, the anti-BF mafia. It never fails to amaze me how many formula-feeding mothers expect sensitivity about their feeding method, yet have absolutely no qualms about criticising mothers for BF.
Show quote history
PP poster was criticising mothers breastfeeding 3 year olds. I’m not saying she is right to do so, but it’s pretty irrelevant. By the time your child is that age, it’s unlikely you’re all that bothered what other people think. Whereas, mothers of newborns are far more vulnerable and sensitive.

Actually I'd say that someone.who objects to the expression "ful term breastfeeding" is actually more likely to be someone who did BF than didn't. Because they're more likely to be upset that even though they did BF they still didn't "do enough" Someone who already did not BF is likely to be much less sensitive to "term BF" pressure than regular BF pressure. Obviously.

I never cared if I was discreet or not. I think half the world saw my boobs when I BF.
My sister has type 1 diabetes so I wanted to BF as that's associated with a lower risk.

That's what I found too. All the evidence suggests it's better for babies, but you're not allowed to say that. I never said anything to anyone in RL about my choices, ever, or their choices, but I got plenty of defensive remarks about their choice to FF, usually mixed with a dig at BF.
Most people do FF so if the mafia does exist it's not very successful.

There's some very militants people on both sides.

Most people do formula feed eventually but not without attempting to breastfeed first.

The ones who formula feed from birth without any attempt at breastfeeding are often more judged, they are also a minority.

That doesn’t really alter the point I was trying to make though that you can’t celebrate breastfeeding, or really mention it, because people seem to get offended.

I was talking about an anecdote the other day about a woman who had twins on my labour ward and was absolutely bossing it, whilst I was a total wreck with my first. The conversation quickly turned to who had and hadn’t been able to breastfeed which really wasn’t what my story was about - I was just talking about my experience on the labour ward.

I don't have any kids and couldn't give a shit how anyone feeds their baby.

However, I definitely know someone I would suspect would fall into the 'breastfeeding mafia' category; she's a former classmate of mine who I'm Facebook friends with and have mutual friends with in real life. She barely goes for three days without sharing something about breastfeeding and how superior it is on Facebook and I know at least two people have fallen out with her over her pushy attitude to the way they fed their own kids. Her child is about nine or ten now but she she was still sharing pictures of herself breastfeeding her when she was six or seven. She also used to share pictures of her and one of her friends breastfeeding each other's children, sitting side by side on the sofa.

She is definitely very judgemental of women who formula feed or give up breastfeeding early on and insists that any problems with breastfeeding can be overcome and that people just don't try hard enough, which upset a mutual friend a lot because she had a horrendous time trying to feed her first baby.

I think some people get defensive because they feel like they tried their best, often with little to no support for them to have to formula feed feeling guilty and like they have failed often told by at least one person that if they had just tried harder like they did then they would still be breastfeeding. Then someone like you makes an innocent comment and it's just a sore spot for them because they often still feel guilty and potentially raw if it was recent.

I formula fed from birth so it's a different experience for me because it was my choice to formula feed so whilst the judgment is there and it can be pretty awful, for so many people, they start out desperately trying to breastfeed and it's a very emotive subject for them.

Yup I absolutely agree which is why I think
it’s actually really difficult to discuss breastfeeding at all without offending someone. Let alone celebrate it.

I am, quite proud to have fed both of my sons. That doesn’t detract from anyone else’s choices. But you literally can’t say you’re proud. Hence I don’t even mention it unless directly asked.

I think @SouthLondonMum22 has hit the nail on the head. It’s an emotive subject because, for most people who ff, they had an unsuccessful or partially successful attempt at bf. That’s hard to deal with and even worse when people judge you.

Perhaps we could liken it to giving birth. I’m proud that I gave birth to 3 dc naturally with no pain relief, but many women try that and don’t manage to. That’s not because they ‘didn’t try hard enough’ - it just didn’t work out, usually for multiple factors. Some women choose to opt for a c-section without even trying. Again, no who are we to judge?

What’s not good is when people go on about how ‘successful’ they were. Honestly, who is that helping?

You know for those who are proud to have BF that's great. It's great that you were able to and that you are proud of yourself and your commitment. You genuinely have done something awesome. but if you put yourself in the shoes of the woman who tried her absolute best and wasn't able to, or just about managed it but destroyed their mental health in the process, while getting judged from healthcare professionals and randoms on the street can you not understand why they might get "offended" if you talk of how proud you are (especially if you start on about all the benefits, I'm sure there isn't a single person who doesn't know about those!)?
Imagine it in the circumstance of say having to have had an emergency section when you REALLY wanted a water birth, and everyone talking about their amazing no drugs, natural birth and how much healthier their baby will be because of that. It makes you feel like you failed. Even though there was nothing you could do about it, but add in judgement for months along with feeling like you haven't done the best for your baby.
I had a "natural" birth for my twins (it was fucking horrendous if anyone is interested, absolutely wouldn't recommend it) but I can completely empathise with women who had a section against their wishes and would NEVER talk to them of how proud I am to have had my twins vaginally.

@Splishsplashsplooshsplosh

I understand what you’re saying. But why shouldn’t you be able to talk about your achievements? In the same way you’d talk about a promotion at work or an academic achievement.

I don’t really need to imagine - I had a shitty first birth and a planned c-section the second time. I can still congratulate someone for an unmedicated, vaginal birth and admire them and their resolve. Yes, I’m slightly jealous their insides don’t try and escape when they exercise or if they don’t piss themselves when they cough but I wouldn’t want to take their achievement away from them. It’s just variation which is natural. I remember a friends Mum telling me her daughter was a “warrior” and didn’t need drugs to give birth - I was like, cool, sounds great. I could have told her if I’d have declined intervention then both me and my baby would be death but what she was telling me wasn’t a reflection on me, so I didn’t.

To add - I don’t feel shamed about people who advocate for home births or inferior in some way because I had a c-section. It’s just life we can’t all be great at everything.

But it isn’t an ‘achievement’ like getting a degree or doing well at work. Some women find breastfeeding very, very easy. Some people’s bodies give birth very easily. They haven’t ‘achieved’ - it just worked out for them.

But the birth thing isn't actually the perfect analogy anyway - it's just to have some sort of understanding. I guess to get closer would be whilst the section was happening to have people come in and say "oh are you sure you don't want to have a vaginal birth, maybe if you just try a bit harder, it's better for the baby you know" because once the birth is done, while people might make you feel shit for not having done it "naturally" ha! At least it's done. No one is still pushing you.
Sorry about your traumatic first birth. Sounds shit. Fwiw so was mine. It was "vaginal" but VERY far from "natural".
There are quite a few similarities between the 2 though. I was lied to by NHS staff about both. They told me repeatedly that most twins are born "naturally" these days. It's a lie. They're not. It's actually a crazy procedure to attempt IMO unless the mother genuinely wants to give it a go. Did you know 2nd twin spins to breach whilst first is being born in a high % of cases? Nope me neither. Because nobody tells you that. Just like they don't tell you that milk supply with twins, especially after a traumatic birth and with hormone imbalances due to PCOS is very likely to be insufficient. They just tell you to try harder, it's better for the babies, if you give a bottle even once they'll get "confused" and reject the breast.
I think healthcare professionals (at least in my central London hospital) are working from a script

But it isn’t an ‘achievement’ like getting a degree or doing well at work. Some women find breastfeeding very, very easy. Some people’s bodies give birth very easily. They haven’t ‘achieved’ - it just worked out for them.

I accept that some women will have barriers that might be insurmountable but I disagree that it either simply works or it doesn’t. There is some sacrifice to breastfeeding and some perseverance (and bloodymindedness) involved beyond just pot luck.

I had barriers with my second that I had to overcome. I had to work at it with both babies. Neither popped out and just fed.