Who are the breastfeeding mafia?!?!?

[PlumPudd]

I often see threads on Mumsnet where people talk about feeling pressured to breastfeed by the breastfeeding mafia or shamed for not breastfeeding. And I’m curious…

Who are these breastfeeding mafiosos?? If you felt pressured to breastfeed, can you explain where this tangible pressure actually came from? Especially when, if you do chose to formula feed, you’ll be doing what the vast majority of UK women do, so you won’t be in the minority and will be surrounded by other women doing the same. Is it just that being told “breast is best” is upsetting if that’s not what you’re choosing?

Why (if the breastfeeding mafia are so powerful) are they also so unsuccessful with breastfeeding rates in the UK among the lowest in the developing world? My experience with the so called mafia (aka midwives, doctors, council funded breastfeeding support teams) is that they were either not there, too busy to help or repeatedly told me to formula feed if I so much as asked for help with a latch.

I 100% believe it’s women’s choice how they feed their babies, but that that choice needs to be informed by accurate information provided by scientists and healthcare professionals, (aka breast is best but formula is fine) and that women need to be supported in whatever they chose, meaning proper lactation consultants and follow up care for mothers that want to try breastfeeding and guidance on paced bottle feeding and techniques for those who chose formula - and both for those who combi.

Most start out to BF but by the end of the first week over half of women are using some kind of formula.

I had to look up to stats because none of my friends made it past a week. Neither did I.

Maybe it's where I live but it seems breast feeding mums are in the minority around here.

I'm pregnant again and won't put the same amount of pressure on myself to BF. It affected my mental health feeling like I was failing my baby when she was hungry and losing weight, I felt there was very little help. The community midwife advised me to just give her formula.

This!! I was desperate to bf. It took the NHS three weeks to deal with my daughter's first tongue tie. (She was assessed by three different HC workers. Two said she had tongue tie and one said she didn't). They finally dealt with the first tongue tie. She still couldn't latch (even bottles. She'd constantly dribble milk out as she was feeding) and we were struggling big time. I was under the care of the infant feeding team (who were amazing!!) but still struggled to establish bf properly. My DD was losing lots of weight. Infant feeding team nurse said she had a second tongue tie, but the surgeon (yes, surgeon.... No idea why it was referred to a surgeon, something with it being far back or something) refused to do anything about it and said there was no tongue tie. So we went private and they said, yes there is a second tongue tie and sorted it. By now, my DD was 4mths old and mainly ff. My HV kept telling me to quit trying to bf. I was desperate to bf, but I ended up ff her. I didn't feel judged at all. I just wished for more help at the beginning to get the ties and latching sorted. I would never judge anyone for bf or ff. It's a personal choice and it should be left that way

Will add antibodies do work. When my baba was newborn I got gastroenteritis. So bad. Had it for weeks. Had to feed my son on the toilet. He never caught it off me. I fed him more than usual so he got the antibodies

It literally is though. Formula is a very close second, but breastfeeding is best overall. That’s not to say there aren’t plenty of situations / families where formula is best for them

I think this is bollocks. I mean sure, nutrition-wise, breast milk apparently just edges out formula. Fair enough. But when making a decision on any food, you have to weight a lot of things and then come up with the best solution. And on that basis, the blanket phrase, "breast is best" is 100% false.

Organic meat and vegetables are "best". But if we ate all organic food, we would not have the finances to afford to actually feed ourselves 3x a day with a varied and healthy diet. Therefore, in our case, organic is NOT best because the impact of eating organically would mean starvation and malnutrition.

I guess what you’re describing as pressure I would describe as being given accurate information.

For me pressure would be more like, if you’d decided to formula feed and made that clear, doctors and midwives then telling you repeatedly it was the wrong choice. Or women in cafes telling you you were harming your baby.

So…

Not pressure

Midwife: “hi mum, what a lovely baby. have you decided how you want to feed? Here are some leaflets, we do recommend breastfeeding.”
Woman: “yes I think I want to formula feed”
Midwife: “okay are you sure? We can help you try breastfeeding if you want to give it a go?”
Woman: “no thanks it’s not for me.”
Midwife: “okay then no problem, here are the bottles. Shall I spend some time with you showing you how to do paces feeding?”

Pressure

Midwife: “hi mum, what a lovely baby. have you decided how you want to feed? Here are some leaflets. We do recommend breastfeeding.”
Woman: “yes I think I want to formula feed”
Midwife: “okay are you sure? We can help you try breastfeeding if you want to give it a go?”
Woman: “no thanks it’s not for me.”
Midwife: “hrmm, you know you’re putting your baby at risk of xxxx and not giving him the best start in life. Go on just give it a go.”
Woman: “ no I don’t want to”
Midwife: “well that’s a shame, tsk, I’ll have someone come and talk to you about it again later”

It's women. Women are another woman's worst enemy. The ones who are the 'mafia', judging and putting the pressure - it's women.

I have only ever breastfed and only ever experienced pressure to FF! Midwives tried to get eldest to take a bottle of formula and I even had a crazy HV telling me to FF 'otherwise he'll never have a bond with his dad' (yes really). What a load of crap! I'm in east Kent and this was all less than ten years ago so recent.

I'm pro breastfeeding but only to the point that I think there should be better targetted resources to support women get it established because it's so much easier plus free once you are going. It the moment most support is private or volunteer led, but crucially rarely accessible to lower income women, even the locations of (free) breastfeeding support groups are often in expensive cafes. Those who need it most aren't getting support. If that makes me a mafia, fine - I just think a choice should be a true one.

Is it not the case though, and my experience might be a bit out of date, but midwives and health workers are not actually allowed to recommend, help, or advise about ff at all. When I was in hospital with a poorly non feeding baby it took a week before an old school midwife stepped in and literally smuggled me some ready mades. Up to that point I was given no alternative. I wasn't allowed to self discharge as DD had bad jaundice.

@PlumPudd you don't recognise how vulnerable new mothers are. You think a midwife asking a mother if she is sure she wanted to formula feed isn't pressure?
You know who is most at risk of pnd? Mothers who try to breastfeed and have to give up.
And I have a hollow internal laugh when I read that one of the benefits of breastfeeding is promoting bonding. I was starting to dread every feed and was avoiding holding my baby so she wouldn't latch when she wasn't hungry.

I breastfed and it was definitely the other way round. Almost ridiculed by acquaintances with babies (antenatal “friends” etc) who formal fed for me not “having a life” and being able to leave my baby for long periods of time, go on nights out or whatever. I never had any judgement for those who chose to formula feed - why would I, it’s a completely individual choice and they all had happy healthy babies regardless. But I wasn’t given the same courtesy people seemed to think because I was breastfeeding it was fair game to make snarky comments.

I dunno, maybe because threads usually go like this:

"I know i don't want to BF and am feeling pressured, just want to offload a bit"

"Why do you feel pressured? Can you just give colostrum? Or maybe just try it and see how you feel? Breast is best. I don't understand how you feel pressured".

Something like that maybe?

(I BF for 2 years).

"Not pressure

Midwife: “hi mum, what a lovely baby. have you decided how you want to feed? Here are some leaflets, we do recommend breastfeeding.”
Woman: “yes I think I want to formula feed”
Midwife: “okay are you sure? We can help you try breastfeeding if you want to give it a go?”
Woman: “no thanks it’s not for me.”
Midwife: “okay then no problem, here are the bottles. Shall I spend some time with you showing you how to do paces feeding?”"

But this is not how it goes.
It's more like (at least for me)

I'm struggling, I don't think my babies are getting enough nutrition. I think I need formula at least for top ups.

If you give a bottle even once, your babies will potentially reject the breast. It's totally normal for babies to lose some weight and want to feed constantly. Whatever you do do not give a bottle.

And repeat.

Even when we were re-admitted to hospital they wouldn't provide formula for us. We were discharged at 10.30pm and had to drive round till we found a supermarket that was still open because hospital wouldn't give us any to go home with(even though peadatrician had said we needed it) and we had none at home because we were repeatedly told not to have any in, on case we were "tempted" to use it.

I'm really not sure why you have such an agenda here, OP.
So you are pro BF and have managed it yourself. Well done. You are mum of the year and all of us who didn't manage it are clearly not as amazing as you. FFS.

Yep! We should be uplifting each other. Not tearing each other down

And hospital did not give formula or any advice about how to do it safely. At the time there was nothing on the NHS website either, although there is now.
I suspect many gastrointestinal infections in babies being formula fed was caused by a lack of information. The attitude seemed to be just read the tin, why would you need to know anything else.

@Estermay yes I know how vulnerable new mothers are, I’ve got two kids

The reason a midwife would ask if she was sure is because the majority of women say they want to breastfeed but end up not breastfeeding because of a lack of support. That’s a tragedy, and is those women not being given a proper choice and all down to lack of bloody funding (another debate). So again, what you see as pressure, I see as offering support and making sure someone is confident in her choice. Then supporting her in that choice

Where is the pressure coming from?

There was a thread here a couple of days a ago where a woman felt pressured by her husband and MiL to breastfeed. She clearly stated she didn't want to.

Instead of getting solidarity there was a pile on by the breastapo and the OP didn't come back. Women who have done it and feel superior and men who can't do it is where the pressure comes from.

@PlumPudd but that is women who give up breastfeeding. Women who state from the start they don't want to breastfeedshouldnt be asked if they are sure. Of course it is pressure.
It is clear from your imaginary conversation you have zero understanding of this.
My sister continued to breastfeed even though her nappies were bleeding. She breastfed for months like that in pain every time because she wanted to do what is best for her baby. The midwife knew the situation.
And women like me get emotional about all of this because those who push breastfeeding still discount our experience and claim there is no pressure.

Nipples not nappies

My sister was really upset that she couldn't breast feed. She was in hospital for 6 days post birth and after day 3 stopped greeting hospital staff with hello and instead started with "I've had a mastectomy, I can't breastfeed". THAT is how often she was questioned about using formula. So yeah, I'd call that a breastfeeding mafia.

She was already feeling guilty about it without everyone acting like formula was a second rate option.

Questioning a woman's choice is pressure. We all know breastfeeding is preferable. You would have to be oblivious to the world around you not to have seen that message.
When a woman says I want to FF then the only answer should be OK.
Not:

Oh but give it a try
Are you sure, really really sure?
Just try it for a few weeks
But it's best for your baby, why won't you even try?

A woman has a right to make a decision about her body without it constantly being questioned. As Mumsnetters are fond of saying

No. is a complete sentence.

"And women like me get emotional about all of this because those who push breastfeeding still discount our experience and claim there is no pressure."

This is the crux of it for me. People need to pack it in with the wide eyed "but there is no pressure" and start listening to those who say there 100% is. Every little "but are you sure" "have you tried.. " "can't you just..." "it is best" is pressure to someone who has said they don't want to.

I think its fine if someone says "I want to BF but am not sure if....." then offer advice etc. But a point blank "I don't want to BF" - that should be it. Same as anything else to do with our bodies

@Splishsplashsplooshsplosh i don’t have an agenda, I’m interested in where the pressure is coming from.

If you read my previous posts you’ll see that I’m pro women having the info to make an informed choice and then getting the support to do what’s right for them. That I struggled and got no support to breastfeed, had multiple midwives and health visitors pushing formula on me when I asked for help breastfeeding and combi fed out of choice

@PlumPudd but you don't seem to accept any of these women telling you how they, or their loved ones, felt the pressure? that your "no pressure" conversation actually feels very pressured in that situation. That lots and lots of women have midwives giving them a hard time or refusing to get them formula when they ask for it. These are all REAL things that happen. it's not just some amorphous "pressure" that these women are being a bit silly about and over sensitive to.

I will be forever grateful to the GP who gave me "permission" to stop BF. She was the first healthcare professional who basically said to me, "look, you've tried. It's not working. Stop trying - you're just upsetting yourself and your baby is losing too much weight. give him a bottle."

I didn't see any snarky/negative or judgy comments. Well from what I read.