To ask these questions about Palestine

[Workplacenoob]

Why did the Palestinians vote hamas in?

Why don't they topple their government?

Why haven't the rich countries in the ME been pouring money into Palestine over the past few years? Don't they consider that area holy land/aren't they interested in protecting it?

Just as Europe opened its borders to the refugees of Ukraine, why hasn't the ME done the same for Palestine?

I understand Iran funds Hamas. But why?

@ProvincialLady1 while Im sure they appreciate the sympathy you’ve got for them from the safety of your home thousands of miles away, what they really need is your outrage and for you to speak out about what’s happening to them. It’s a genocide in real time. That’s the reality of the situation, simplistic or not, anyone with an ounce of humanity and critical thought who’s done their research can see that. Take a even a cursory look at the accounts of UNRWA, MSF, Mohamed Al Kurd, Shaun King and many others to see for yourself what the mainstream media don’t show you.

maybe a longer term solution can consider the hundreds of years of history of the region that the pro-Israel apologists keep referring too so that we keep navel gazing and are distracted from the atrocities that are happening as we speak.

It seems Israeli missiles had already hit the hospital. This from the Guardian:

We received the two missiles that hit the hospital. We could see and tell that they are from an Israeli strike at the hospital. And then we received the warnings,” he said.
Staff told refugees who crowded into its courtyard about those warnings, but they apparently judged the hospital safer than other options in a city under attack. In the afternoon before hundreds were killed and maimed, they had been singing peace songs to keep up their spirits, Naoum said.

Why did the Palestinians vote hamas in?

There was about equal votes for Hamas vs Fatah. I guess voting for them indicated the mood and priorities of the population at the time.

Why don't they topple their government?

Every poll I've ever seen shows a high level of support for them. And even if it didn't, they're immensely powerful and would probably kill someone for even saying something like that.

Why haven't the rich countries in the ME been pouring money into Palestine over the past few years?

a) They kind of have
b) They are generally not humanitarian in these ways (look at other countries in perpetual conflict)
c) A lot are prejudiced against Palestinians

Just as Europe opened its borders to the refugees of Ukraine, why hasn't the ME done the same for Palestine?

They have kind of. There's millions in Jordan. Problem is that they keep them in refugee camps and won't let them become citizens.

I understand Iran funds Hamas. But why?

Common enemy (Jews, America, Democracy, The West)

To be clear, I'm talking about sympathising in general, not about the current situation, which is horrific. But you were taking about root causes, which obviously are important - and the subject of the thread.

Actually Jordan, uniquely among ME counties, did grant Palestinians citizenship. However, Palestinians, even if granted citizenship of another country, remain refugees in perpetuity.
Every other refugee in the world ceases to be a refugee (ie in need of international protectio) when they take citizenship of their country of asylum. Only Palestinians remain refugees forever.
Palestinians are also barred from taking part in any refugee resettlement programme.
The ONLY durable solution available to Palestinians is return whlle other refugees have the solutions of local integration and resettlement. Except return isn't an option (return where? To what?). So they are refugees in perpetuity, from generation to generation.

Why are Palestine refugees unique among the world's refugees? How does this be efkt them?

It's so odd sitting here in the Middle East reading what people not here think we think and do. Honestly, do you really think Palestine is not supported? Palestinians and Syrians have a huge presence as refugees and permanent residents. Its not our first rodeo, many of us have friends and colleagues who are inconstant danger and lose family nenbers all the time. Just just in the last week but day in day out, year after year. I don't profess to know what the UK is all about these days because I've been away so long so I try not to base my assumptions on stereotypical examples.

t's not my fault if you have difficulty reading. There are lots of adult literacy courses available that can help.

Grow up.

Wow @Pollyputhekettleon you've been on here all day arguing with people! I’ve gone and come back from work and you are here pushing your agenda!

Thank you for the compliment, but there's no need to go all stalker on me you know. Like wow.

@Pollyputhekettleon👏 thank you. Your depth and breadth of knowledge in this area is clear. If only those engaging with you were as thorough in their examination of history, politics and religion.

Lol

You mean in 1948, Jews may have felt a tad unsafe in the world? A little bit traumatized as a nation? Why, what on earth may have caused such a paranoid and unreasonable assumption?

FFS those countries you mention - US, NZ, Australia, Canada - did not do "just fine" after independence. Race relations in each of these countries are fucked up, STILL, which shows how deeply colonisation fucks things up in general. It fucks them up for centuries after the fact. It fucks them up for every generation that comes after, whether we bomb each other or 'just' incarcerate, violate, segregate, steal children, steal land, withhold resources, beat up and beat down. The colonised peoples in each of these countries are still struggling, are still coping with generational trauma, shame and fear, they are underrepresented in positive statistics and overrepresented in negative statistics, and they STILL have to fight for their place at the table to be heard and valued and their many losses even acknowledged let alone restitution made. So please don't use us as a prop in your racist characterisation of Arabs / Muslims being less civilised or humane or indeed any more barbaric than any other people group. It is patently and demonstratively untrue.

I actually came on here to see if I misread the tone of your posts on the previous thread. I can see I did not - more than a touch of Great Replacement conspiracy theory here.

where is the feminist outrage for the women and girls of Gaza? 50,000 currently pregnant according to the UN who currently have no access to clean water, electricity, medicines blocked and whose homes are being carpet bombed as we speak.

I thought Mumsnet was a site set up as a place to support women and mothers ? Clearly the sisterhood is dead.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/pregnant-women-new-mothers-risk-amid-israel-hamas/story?id=104006519

@Desertrose2023
Maybe they are busy with the women and girls affected by conflict in Syria, Sudan, Yemen, Myanmar, Ethopia and Afghanistan who don't have access to clean water, medicines or electricity?

Those women are also deserving of outrage.

what makes Gaza’s women different is that they had access to all those things and it’s now being INTENTIONALLY WITHHELD as a form of illegal collective punishment 🙄

Your style is so intensely patronising.

To people who deserve it, yes, absolutely. Dishonestly accuse me of supporting ethnic cleansing and you can suck up getting patronized in response. They should be grateful I didn't get them deleted for a personal attack, which I could do, anytime. I happen to support free speech, which is why I rarely do that.

How do you account for the state of a country like Liberia ( never colonised) if colonisation is the defining evil?

@Desertrose2023
They did? So israel was supplying gaza with all these essential items? Interestinf when people on this site claim its the same as the warsaw ghetto or bergen belsen. Not forgetting gaza has had 20 years to arrange its own water and electricity or get it from Egypt rather than the hated israel.
Hamas clearly still has fuel to fire missiles to israel so perhaps they can give it to the generators.
I don't think israel should have cut the water as I don't think you should do that to a civillian population. But I can also understand why you don't want to supply water and power to people who have just declared war on you, butchered babies, mowed down young people at a festival, executed families, raped women and paraded their naked bodies and taken 200 people hostage.

Firstly, I didn’t write the piece.
Also, it’s not 1948 any more. Most people who were adults in 1948 are dead.

None of these wars are being perpetrated by the West.

Never said it was the defining evil. It is evil, yes. But by no means the only evil around either. What I object to is the (thinly) veiled idea that Muslims/ Arabs are inherently savage, barbaric, unjust, inhuman. That is one of the founding beliefs that drives colonisation of any culture (subjugate the savages) so yes it is and can be a factor in these discussions. Dehumanising an entire group of people, considering them less worthy of basic human rights, is what leads to things like a white Australian gunman unleashing hell in my country, taking 51 innocent lives while at prayer and livestreaming the whole thing - with utter bastards afterwards adding kill counts and crosshairs and cheering the whole thing. Many of the victims were refugees, some of them were children. They were specifically targeted as immigrant, brown Muslims, the attack link to dehumanising rhetoric the likes of which I've seen on this thread and have too often heard in real life, and abounds in white supremacist groups. It's concerning to see it masquerading as support for Israel here.

She was responding to this statement in the article:

'Israel was founded on the premise that Jews aren’t safe anywhere due to global anti-semitism'

The article provided no explanation for why Jews felt unsafe at the time Israel was founded. Such a weird article, it treats the whole conflict as a matter of managing emotions. As if it's merely a perception problem on the part of the Jews that can be managed by cooler minds.

Interestingly, the pro-Palestinian side never finds that 1948 is too long ago when they're tracing the roots of this conflict to, say, the Nakba. 1948 tends to be their cut off point, beyond that you get the same, irrational, oh but they're all dead now response. As if history stops mattering once those who lived through it are dead.

The article meant that they still feel alone now.

On the contrary there was a lot of sympathy when Hamas attacked them. Still there from the US and many other countries. Dwindling with every ongoing atrocity in Gaza though.