To ask these questions about Palestine

[Workplacenoob]

Why did the Palestinians vote hamas in?

Why don't they topple their government?

Why haven't the rich countries in the ME been pouring money into Palestine over the past few years? Don't they consider that area holy land/aren't they interested in protecting it?

Just as Europe opened its borders to the refugees of Ukraine, why hasn't the ME done the same for Palestine?

I understand Iran funds Hamas. But why?

No

🤷‍♂️

No @ScoreCard this is NOT antisemitism.
It is fact that people were antisemitic to Jewish refugees in the 1930s.
If every relevant reference to the holocaust is antisemitism we will never resolve this. Because Israel ≠ Jewish and Hamas≠ Muslim or all Palestinians.
We need to be able to see the contradictions here

ismu - no you couldn't suggest this about all refugees. You can ignore historical fact if you wish, but my comment stands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

It is the reason why they aren't being offered refuge else where in the Arab world.

I think you will find this policy is called ethnic cleansing.

Most people don't support it, let alone advocate it on social media.
https://www.globalr2p.org/about/

@Teentaxidriver that event was in 1970.
Someone has made a good point that Palestinian refugees are still without full citizenship in many countries- so why would they want to go there? Also the fear that they will never be allowed home.
I still think we should offer sanctuary in the UK as we have done for Ukrainian and Hong Kong refugees.
And maybe the British Jewish community stands as an example of our welcome-however imperfect.

Absolutely Puzzledandpissedoff (the West is always wrong). Ideology matters and the ideology of Hamas (supported by the majority of Palestinians) is frankly terrifying. I think a lot of posters presume that Hamas is decent and reasonable and it isn't - they explicitly target civilians, coexistence is not an option, they want to exterminate all jews. This is why the settler/ coloniser/ apartheid narrative has to be pushed back. Public opinion helps to formulate government policy and I saw the mob on the streets last week, glorifying terrorism.

It's not my fault if you have difficulty reading. There are lots of adult literacy courses available that can help.

Ismu - so you accept that I was correct or are you claiming that a period of 50 of years has changed their nature? They'll play nicely and share? Maybe call a truce? Stop the pogroms? Change their founding charter?

Don't make me laugh.

Just more obfuscation in your reply - exactly the same as I posted before. It’s always the same with the apologists for Israel’s crimes “but Hamas”, “but the Arabs”, but this, but that, but….

never a response to the actual present day issue which is the root cause, the appalling treatment of the Palestinian people who have been living under military occupation and inhumane treatment for decades. People whose water, electricity and internet are currently turned off. Who are being starved as collective punishment. There’s nothing that you can say to justify this so you just don’t address it.

and to the poster who asked “what apartheid even means?”, shame on you. You might want to start with some light reading, I’d suggest human rights watch report on Israel’s apartheid as a good place to start:

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

No

How do we know it’s a question then? As opposed to a statement?

@Teentaxidriver Hamas are evil and terrifying, their government is totally illegitimate and Gaza itself is almost a mini state separate from the other Palestinians.
But extreme views and actions from the Israeli Government are also hideous. Bulldozing farms, ancient olive groves, forced settlement, bombing indiscriminately- when Netanyahu regained power it was widely seen as an absolute disaster as he is a hard line Zionist who refuses to negotiate and this has given rocket fuel to Hamas' fire.

My heart breaks for the Israelis who didn't agree with him and only wanted a peaceful life, as it breaks for the ordinary Palestinians who had no interest in Hamas.
For everyone who's been shocked by the support for the Palestinians, it helps if you think of the situation as being like the Hunger Games, with ordinary Israelis living oblivious in the Capitol.
There is no one right side here.

We've had posters do exactly that. One called RedCrossSupporter was all over it. Hamas, while regrettable, were reformed characters since 1988 who totally support a two state solution.

Oh and the best was this speech by a Hamas official in 2022, she compared it to the American Declaration of Independence except slightly less eloquent:

'We believe in what our Prophet Muhammad said: “Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake, and I have seen its eastern and western ends. The dominion of my nation would reach those ends that have been drawn near me," Zahar said in the video that was published on MEMRI TV in December of 2022,

“The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity and no killings and crimes like those being committed against the Palestinians, and against the Arabs in all the Arab countries, in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and other countries," he said.'

WATCH: Israel is only the first target, warns Hamas commander - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

Another delightful poster on here concluded she must have been sarcastic because the American Founding Fathers were racist. You couldn't make it up.

Another delightful poster on here concluded she must have been sarcastic because the American Founding Fathers were racist. You couldn't make it up.

well I don’t think the native Americans or black people got many rights back then do you?

Various countries in the Middle East are frustrated with and annoyed by the Palestinian leaderships constant rejection of every single peace deal that's ever been on offer.

Note the 2018 comments from Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman in the attachment. His comments was widely reported in the USA and Arab media.

https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-crown-prince-told-palestinians-to-shut-up-and-stop-complaining-2018-4

Hamas has been losing support in various Middle East countries. They launched their attack in Israel when it looked like Saudi Arabia and Israel were in agreement to normalise relations via the USA arms deal too.

Yes indeed.
Just read a piece by a journalist called Gideon Rachman in the Financial Times. He says that Israel was founded on the premise that Jews aren’t safe anywhere due to global anti-semitism and no one will help them. Many Israelis truly believe this. And currently they’re traumatised and frightened and lashing out because they feel alone. US policy is to tread softly, avoid harsh denunciations, try to persuade them that they’re not alone. So that they will then calm down and listen when people ask them to moderate their response. The US in this way has already brokered safe routes during certain times and a partial restoration of the water supply. Long term - who knows how this impasse can be managed but hopefully in the short term emotions on both sides can be brought down.

I’d like to think this is true.

I still think we should offer sanctuary in the UK as we have done for Ukrainian and Hong Kong refugees.

Not sure it's the best idea

How many of those from Hong Kong and Ukraine have bombed and slaughtered in the countries which accepted them? And how many were out on their streets celebrating further violence back home?

Questions worth remembering before we stampede into another potential disaster...

Oh you won't be getting any say in the matter anyway!

@Desertrose2023 , you’re lashing out because this situation is hugely distressing and emotive but I don’t think it helps anyone to spread misinformation. I wasn’t trying to justify anything, I was addressing your ignorance in your post.

Biden: done by the other team

Maybe it wasn't Hamas, strictly speaking, who are responsible. They have joined forces with other terror groups and fighters, I'm wondering if Iran, Russia, or ISIS is behind the hospital situation. In any case, Biden did not want to say Hamas did it.

But they know exactly which the 'other team' is.

But this is exactly the point, you can't just look at the present day issues as the 'root cause'. I have a lot of sympathy with the situation facing people in Gaza and the West Bank but it's also massively important to look at the full history and the ideology, otherwise you're just offering unworkable solutions and condemnation of the Israelis across the board. They have absolutely done things wrong, but it's also not fair to describe them in these simplistic terms like coloniser, apartheid etc.

@ProvincialLady1 They have to restrict the conversation about root causes to the last few decades, or at least post-1948, because things become a little awkward for them once you go back further than that.

@ProvincialLady1 if you don't like the use of the term apartheid, you need to take that up with:

The United Nations
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights

Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect
https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/