To ask these questions about Palestine

[Workplacenoob]

Why did the Palestinians vote hamas in?

Why don't they topple their government?

Why haven't the rich countries in the ME been pouring money into Palestine over the past few years? Don't they consider that area holy land/aren't they interested in protecting it?

Just as Europe opened its borders to the refugees of Ukraine, why hasn't the ME done the same for Palestine?

I understand Iran funds Hamas. But why?

Just a note to say the Qur'an is completely misused for political gains in those places. The Qur'an is not anti-jewish.

It calls those who profane on the Sabbath apes. But the Bible says death to those who profane on the Sabbath.
https://time.com/104804/debunking-the-extremist-myth-that-islam-is-anti-jewish/

It also has a chapter saying "Let the non-believers believe what they believe and you believe what you believe". Basically live and let live. Except you don't hear this stuff so much because Islam is being so unbelievably misconstrued by world politics

On several posts people have posted many opinion polls, recent ones, showing majority support among Gazans for terrorist groups, including but not limited to Hamas. Whether they could overthrow Hamas or not is irrelevant in that context. A minority certainly can't do it.

@Jelllytot The rest of us will be censored if we disagree with you. All I can do is suggest is that people learn about this for themselves.

I think you are unreasonable to ask. The questions you should be asking is what can be done to help? What can be done to force Israel to let the aid that is lined up waiting in Egypt reach Palestinians? What can be done to stop Israel committing crimes against humanity?

I am happy to learn too and am just quoting what I know. If it can't be said on here, I'm ok to receive private messages on it

I do think all religious texts say their religion is the best, all other religions are less so.

It's not as contradictory if you understand abrogation and the order in which verses were written. It's not compiled in chronological order, which make it difficult for readers to work that out. You also have to understand the context for it to make much sense.

In that case why don't they try to reclaim Spain?

The answer isn't short. All I can say is to read what people who disagree with you say, then weigh up their arguments against what you'll read in the likes of Time magazine and decide for yourself.

@Pollyputhekettleon really no point in arguing with him. The way he has mispelt the Quran is telling. No one ever asks what the torah says about non Jews. I’ve seen many Orthodox Jews talking about their views on non-Jews. Shocking. This guy is just stirring up hate.

I assume the Palestinians voted in Hamas because they believed it would improve their lot somehow. Probably a fair number of them wanted to fight Israel off.
I’m not sure their in a position to get rid of Hamas. They haven’t had any more elections and Hamas probably rule with an Iron fist.

The other Middle Eastern countries probably have their own agendas. From what I’ve read Egypt is concerned about Hamas links to other terrorist groups and how that may affect them.
Egypt probably doesn’t want a large influx of refugees to deal with and is aware that the Israelis may not let them back in. Egypt is the only place the people in Gaza can get to (from Gaza anyway) but it’s moot point as they can’t get out anyway.

@Pollyputhekettleon
The idea that lack of money causes terrorism, or that money can resolve all conflicts, is a left wing one founded only in leftist dogma

I do get what you're saying and hadn't considered this was a particularly western leftist POV, and you're right. I'm not talking about the ME providing funding to end the conflict or terrorism though, more providing funding when everything was more stable to enable Palestine to have a decent standard of living, because the area is considered "holy land", so why not inject money into it to safeguard it?

Actually it's sad and ironic isn't it that this region is holy land for Jews, Christians and Muslims alike - possibly the only thing they can all agree on (that and there being one god)

That is actually a major goal of jihadists in north Africa particularly. It's rather trickier though than simply funding jihadists in Gaza and the West Bank to slaughter a few Israelis every so often, as you can imagine. So it's more of a long range goal.

'Spain is considered the illegitimate occupant of Al Andalus (Islamic Iberia), the medieval territory under Muslim control and cultural influence between 711 and 1492. The reconquest of Granada – the last Islamic stronghold in Spain – by the Catholic Monarchs led to forced conversions and mass expulsions of Muslims.
^^
A number of references in jihadist propaganda to Spain emphasise that the country is part of the umma (the supranational community of Islamic peoples), despite it having been seized by “infidels”. The territorial claims are wholly unrealistic today, but nonetheless strike a useful chord among radicalised jihadists desperate for a cause in which to believe.'

Jihadist terrorists have long had Spain in their sights – here's why (theconversation.com)

Also, as Gaddafi said, there's more than one way to skin a cat:

'WE HAVE FIFTY MILLION MUSLIMS IN EUROPE. THERE ARE SIGNS THAT ALLAH WILL GRANT ISLAM VICTORY IN EUROPE - WITHOUT SWORDS, WITHOUT GUNS, WITHOUT MILITARY CONQUESTS. THE FIFTY MILLION MUSLIMS OF EUROPE WILL TURN IT INTO A MUSLIM CONTINENT WITHIN A FEW DECADES. ALLAH MOBILIZES THE MUSLIM NATION OF TURKEY, AND ADDS IT TO THE EUROPEAN UNION. THAT'S ANOTHER 50 MILLION MUSLIMS. THERE WILL BE 100 MILLION MUSLIMS IN EUROPE. ALBANIA , WHICH IS A MUSLIM COUNTRY, HAS ALREADY ENTERED THE EU. BOSNIA , WHICH IS A MUSLIM COUNTRY, HAS ALREADY ENTERED THE EU. 50% PERCENT OF ITS CITIZENS ARE MUSLIMS. EUROPE IS IN A PREDICAMENT, AND SO IS AMERICA. THEY SHOULD AGREE TO BECOME ISLAMIC IN THE COURSE OF TIME, OR ELSE DECLARE WAR ON THE MUSLIMS.'

Interestingly, that quote has become increasing difficult to find through Google over the years. Same with many other resources.

I doubt Saudi would pour money into Palastine. They're more interested in allying themselves with US/UK/Europe, plus they can't stand the Iranians, who are backing Hammas

https://www.timesofisrael.com/protests-against-hamas-reemerge-in-the-streets-of-gaza-but-will-they-persist/

Tbf there have been protests against Hamas, these are brave people, I wouldn’t want to piss off Hamas if I didn’t have anywhere to run to. They also use arbitrary detention torture etc. It’s often more complicated than we can see from outside.

@DavidSnow007 the Jews aren't seen as unbelievers.
Stop spreading lies

The problem is never what the holy scriptures of any religion say - it’s always those that misquote them for political gain and control.

@DavidSnow007 with all due respect, keep your ill informed and frankly racist opinions re the Koran to yourself. Do feel free to address Israel’s official representatives calling Palestinians “human animals” (defense minister) and “children of darkness” (the PM).

@RosaGallica Fortunately within the next 12 months we will all get the chance to vote on the government.

R4 on right now. Anyone listening?

I'm trying to think of a western alternative scenario. Since we're pretty secular these days it would have to be a cultural threat rather than a religious one, so let's use Greece as the "cradle of our civilisation".
If Turkey was turning Greece into an open air prison and punishing the Greeks on the grounds that it once belonged to the Ottoman Empire and should belong to Turkey, I'm pretty sure that the West would flood Greece with money and possibly engage in outright war, purely on principle, because Greece matters to us in terms of our story and identity as westerners.
BTW I realise my analogy is totally not an exact one, I'm just trying to find something with a similar existential feel

What suits them is to show the world crying dying children and blaming everyone else for it...

This.

Have you not noticed how Hamas and Free Palestine have reversed the roles of victim and offender such that the Palestinian perpetrators assume the victim role even though they slaughtered Jewish babies, children, young people, brutalised women took and tortured hostages yet we are supposed to feel sorry for them at this very moment?

They basically copy/paste Israel's current suffering to harness sympathy for themselves. It's gaslighting on a grand scale. Hamas is sneaky and has always operated this way. They use their own children as human shields and also as a means for propaganda, they basically abuse their own dc to score points.

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm also aware of what the Torah says and attitudes among Orthodox Jews to non-Jews.

He didn't 'stir up' hatred or any other emotion in me, any more than your statement about the Torah and orthodox Jews did. I control my own emotional responses, and if I fail to do so then that's my problem. If other people feel they need to be protected from people causing them to have emotions they don't like then they should either get psychological help or live very sheltered lives. They certainly shouldn't be on an internet forum.

Its mainly this point I don't get. Surely if all ME countries, especially Saudi, the UAE etc absolutely blasted Palestine with money, the Palestinians wouldn't have a problem. And it would totally be in the ME's interests to do so

It wouldn’t solve the problems of the occupied territories or the Palestinians being governed by terrorists

More left wing dogma with zero basis in reality. You don't even realize you're simply channelling Marx and his 'opiate of the masses' do you?