To ask these questions about Palestine

[Workplacenoob]

Why did the Palestinians vote hamas in?

Why don't they topple their government?

Why haven't the rich countries in the ME been pouring money into Palestine over the past few years? Don't they consider that area holy land/aren't they interested in protecting it?

Just as Europe opened its borders to the refugees of Ukraine, why hasn't the ME done the same for Palestine?

I understand Iran funds Hamas. But why?

At last a sensible thread about this

Well it was, until the deletion queen antisemites started up again - now it's full of holes and will probably be pulled like so many others

www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/9/whats-the-israel-palestine-conflict-about-a-simple-guide

This might answer some questions, I don't think it's been posted here already

Thank you for pointing this out, I think it is an astute observation that often gets missed.

I too have noticed lot of “catchphrases” floating around in the world of Israel-Palestine activism: apartheid, settler colonialism, even “the only democracy in the Middle East.” In my personal view — and this is only my perception so feel free to disagree — catchphrases always amount to propaganda.

Catchphrases often exist to shut down critical thought or conversation. When you question the claim that, say, Israel is a “settler colonial state,” activists will accuse you of perpetuating white supremacy or enabling genocide (unfortunately, another word that is used as a catchphrase). So not only does the ‘settler colonial state’ catchphrase not accurately reflect a complicated situation with a complex history, I also think that it’s a cynically intended thought terminating device to shut down debate and silence the other side (because who wants to be seen as identifying with colonialism in this day and age?).

Take the apartheid state accusation, which to me seems so clearly to be an ahistorical false equivalency. What does apartheid mean? What are the origins of the word? When was this word first used in the context of Israel-Palestine? It’s actually quite interesting: in the late 1960s, the United States and Brazil tried to include a clause to a United Nations resolution condemning antisemitism. The Soviet Union, which was severely oppressing its Jewish population, worried that such a clause would put international pressure on them. As such, they suggested a counter proposal, which was a clause that equated Zionism to Nazism. To gain the support of African nations, the Soviet Union disseminated a propaganda campaign in Africa comparing Zionism to apartheid.

So always there’s more to this than meets the eye.

A simple guide?

An oxymoron, surely.

What is simple, however, is the reasoning of the Free Palestine brigade. Naive ignorant and well meaning at best, outright antisemitism at worst.

How are you starting a post with 'If that's even true...' and then proceeding with a straight face?

This is like that other poster (actually more than one...) who freely and frequently admits ignorance about all kinds of central issues, but barrels on regardless. And all the time claiming to be ever so compassionate.

@Pollyputhekettleon not addressing the points as usual because you have no actually response or justification. Not sure why I bothered 🤣🤣🤣

That's interesting @EastofEden89 and like all these perfidious rumours there is always something to hang it on- the rise of the concept of Nation states from the birth of Germany in the 1800s which encompassed lots of countries seeking independence in the 20th century. Unfortunately one of the threads of this movement was an idea of National or racial identity- what we call blood and soil nationalism today. It certainly wasn't Nazism. But we can see how Nazis and other totalitarian groups including the Soviets utilised this idea to their advantage.

How are you starting a post with 'If that's even true...' and then proceeding with a straight face?

This is like that other poster (actually more than one...) who freely and frequently admits ignorance about all kinds of central issues, but barrels on regardless. And all the time claiming to be ever so compassionate

You really can’t cope with alternative points of view or people arguing back can you?
It really is very silly

Indeed.

People need to get their facts right if there's to be any hope for discussion.

@Desertrose2023 yes Jews and Christians and Muslims lived there peacefully for hundreds of years, until the Zionist project where it was decided the land would be taken create a homeland ONLY for Jews All of this is such absolute nonsense, you clearly need a history lesson yourself about pre 1948 conflict.
The non Jewish population of Israel is over 2 million people in a general population of just under 10 million.
Where it prioritizes Jews from Russia and the US and Europe who have no family or connection to the land ALL ethnic Jews are indigenous to Israel and are connected. Russia and other European countries are still dangerous places for Jews to live, why would they want to stay there?
Go educate yourself about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. And while you’re at it, educate yourself about the ethnic cleansing of Jews from every country of the Middle East and North Africa where they had lived for centuries.

A misfired missile.

Hamas operative realising a group called Palestinian Islamic Jihad shot the missile that destroyed the hospital and killed Palestinian doctors, nurses and patients, including children and babies:

'Never mind, they shot it from the cemetery behind the hospital'

Other Hamas operative: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

You couldn't make this up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12643229/Israel-blast-Gaza-hospital-Palestine-video-rocket-misfire.html

Indeed.

People need to get their facts right if there's to be any hope for discussion

You don’t know what the facts are any more than I do but never mind you just keep implying otherwise

You couldn't make this up

I’ll bet you could actually.

So is this verified then

Bloody hell

Facts are verified by independent sources. They usual need a few hours or days to be verified. It's called evidence. Israelis are sharing evidence with independent sources to be verified. I's usually prudent to wait a few hours or days before reposting so called news.

So is this verified then

By the Daily Fail.
Job done 🙄

It’s a question. not ‘job done’

I’ll wait for other outlets to confirm or deny

Well, of course, there is chance Israel got some of their own Palestinian citizens or Hamas captives to reenact the above script and record a pretend call with some good acting. It's also possible that they created the video showing the missile hitting the hospital from a nearby position using CGI to gaslight the world. The problem is that they are presenting this evidence to international media and if upon scrutiny they were found to have lied about it they'd lose all credibility and international support in an instance.

Honestly I really doubt the truthfulness of Hamas or the Israeli government.

@Teentaxidriver you could literally suggest this about all refugees. In fact it's the kind of thing that was said about Jews in the 1930s.
That's such a xenophobic comment

On the question of the wider Middle East taking refugees, one aspect of the whole conflict that gets overlooked is the status of Palestinian refugees and their descendants in other countries.

In Lebanon for example, the descendants of Palestinians who were expelled in 1948 are still classed as refugees. They do not have Lebanese citizenship and are not allowed to work in over 30 professions such as medicine, law and engineering. Most Palestinian refugees in Jordan do have citizenship but nearly one-fifth of them still live in refugee camps.

See you could have made your point without making a backhanded reference to the holocaust, but you didn't this is antisemitism live on MN.

It’s a question. not ‘job done’

In that case use question marks 🤷‍♀️