To ask these questions about Palestine

[Workplacenoob]

Why did the Palestinians vote hamas in?

Why don't they topple their government?

Why haven't the rich countries in the ME been pouring money into Palestine over the past few years? Don't they consider that area holy land/aren't they interested in protecting it?

Just as Europe opened its borders to the refugees of Ukraine, why hasn't the ME done the same for Palestine?

I understand Iran funds Hamas. But why?

"ALLAH MOBILIZES THE MUSLIM NATION OF TURKEY, AND ADDS IT TO THE EUROPEAN UNION. "
Is that you Boris? This 'fact' was bandied about during the EU referendum and was debunked. This sounds like paranoia run wild.
We have a Muslim mayor, do you think he's plotting to take over London? Perhaps he's in cahoots with my Muslim doctor.
This is the kind of thinking that got that six-year old boy murdered in the US this week.

Oh look, Chris Williamson's at it again on Twitter ...

"Israel has forfeited any right to exist"

Did you bother reading the Peel Commission report yet, no? Would you rather just stick with caricatures?

It's all very well to be clever after the fact. In reality, there had been a post-WW1 massive transfer of population between Turkey and Greece. The Turks were having, let's just say, some issues with their Greek Christian populations and in response the Greeks weren't exactly thrilled with their Turkish population either. The two countries agreed that the only long-term solution was to move any Turks from Greece to Turkey and kick out all Greeks from Turkey to Greece. It was done. It wasn't pleasant, but it worked. That's why you no longer hear about pogroms against Christians in Turkey.

Burma was also peacefully split from India by the Brits. The Peel Commission, unlike you, was aware of these successful precedents of partition and population transfer and, very reasonably, saw it as the only possible solution.

Not sure who he is but that reminds me of something. What a statement.

I agree. Jews and Muslims were the same people (very roughly) before they split into different beliefs. I think this current phase is much more about cultural differences, land war, East vs West. Above all, throw in a few power-crazed, toxic, religious fundamentalist psychopaths and violent narcissist leaderships on both sides, stoke up the tensions and atrocities over many years, radicalise people on both sides by destroying their homes and murdering their family members and voila.
So much high emotion now on both sides - but who is going to step in and mediate effectively before many more ordinary people suffer and die?

Well @Pollyputhekettleon Israel has certainly made up for the Arab refusal to give them (more) land by now, as the settlement project backed by Netanyahu demonstrates.
It's a mess.
I do wonder why no one talks about the fact that the UK has taken in 140,000 Hong Kong refugees this year alone and given the majority of them legal status. We've also taken in Ukrainian refugees on a mainly temporary basis. We could easily take in refugees from Gaza too as they have historical links to Britain- if they go to other Middle Eastern countries they are far less likely to ever return.

@Pollyputhekettleon frankly I don’t have the time to continue to engage with you when you are being this obtuse. No people should be forced to live in the inhumane and degrading conditions the Palestinians are forced by Israel to endure in the present day in their own country.

your whack a mole defense where you just dodge the issues raised by referring to random and irrelevant things is laughable. It’s the same old tactic when criticism is ever leveled at the actions of Israel with “but Hamas” but “the Arabs”, but, but, but…. never any accountability or response to the war crimes being perpetrated on a daily basis against the Palestinians.

Shame on you and shame on Israel and shame on the rest of the world including the UK that can’t even bring itself to vote for a humanitarian ceasefire.

Why are you calling Gaddafi Boris?

The Balfour declaration referred to a Jewish "Homeland" not a "State". Homeland can mean different things to different people - it was a document written by politicians and was ambigous (probably deliberately).

The Balfour Declaration very explicitly stated that the creation of this "Homland" must not interfere with the culture and religious practices of other people in the region. Even if it did have a legal basis, it provides no justification for the creation / continued existence of a state like modern Israel which has forced millions of people from their homes.

People should read the Balfour declaration. It is a bit like the second amendment to the US constitution. It doesn't say what people think it says!

IDF bombing the shit out of Gaza is what is making people sympathetic.

Tell me when you believe the Jews arrived in the Middle East?

Not to forget that there have been Jewish protests in Washington asking Israel to moderate its response. And many moderate Israelis - including families of the hostages - speaking out against Netanyahu and his ultra right-wing policies.

Ex Derby North MP - suspended twice, resigned and now sitting as an independemt - Corbyn's "very great friend" and known to have made some of the worst antisemitic comments of all

This latest comment is no surprise to those who know him, but that doesn't lessen its shock value

@Pollyputhekettleon Burma did not work out terribly well at all or peacefully.

Cyprus has literally been at war over Greek and Turkish areas.

My point is that these post colonial settlements needed continuous hard work and not broad brush strokes.The west has done exactly the same in Afghanistan and has left the country to violent and misogynist struggle.

It think the Zionist project would be seen as extremely unusual if it was happening today.

Dangerous people, both

The separation of Burma was peaceful.

Cyprus presumably didn't participate in the population transfer, leaving the two populations continuing to live side by side. That kind of proves my point that sometimes population transfer work, you know.

The US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and dozens of other places did just fine after independence. They certainly did not need any continuous hard work. Because of course they're fundamentally completely different places, with totally different cultural and religious values to, say, Afghanistan.

This blaming of the colonizer is ignoring the entire history of these countries prior to colonization. It even manages to ignore the awkward fact that the British weren't the first people to colonize those areas! The British are not some all-powerful gods who created conflict out of some Garden of Eden. Again this is nothing more than leftist anti-imperialist dogma.

So they should all just leave and let Israel take over? After they have spent generations of life in poverty determined to keep their land? 🤔

Because there are decent people who are not blind due to their faith.

Thank you for this thread.

Yes, and ordinary people on both sides suffering because of their deeply unpleasant leaders.

You haven't answered my question. Try again.

If that's what I wanted to say I would have said it. I was answering the specific point you made.

You're still not answering my question. It's ok to admit you don't know something. We all have to start somewhere.