To ask these questions about Palestine

[Workplacenoob]

Why did the Palestinians vote hamas in?

Why don't they topple their government?

Why haven't the rich countries in the ME been pouring money into Palestine over the past few years? Don't they consider that area holy land/aren't they interested in protecting it?

Just as Europe opened its borders to the refugees of Ukraine, why hasn't the ME done the same for Palestine?

I understand Iran funds Hamas. But why?

@Pollyputhekettleon and @FebruaryOnMyMind yes Jews and Christians and Muslims lived there peacefully for hundreds of years, until the Zionist project where it was decided the land would be taken create a homeland ONLY for Jews and force the people currently living their out of their homes at gunpoint. Where it prioritizes Jews from Russia and the US and Europe who have no family or connection to the land and subsidizes them to make “Aliyah” and return while the owners of the homes cannot go back there and have only the keys to the houses that were taken off them.

I don’t have time for a history lesson. Go educate yourself about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

Exactly and I can’t understand this at all. Palestinian people are practically left as hostages to Hamas regime. They are used by Hamas and it seems that Arab countries don’t care much about it.

Do you understand that Palwstinian people have no right of return? That if they leave that could be that forever? Their homes, their lives, their friends, their families lost forever? That nobody believes that Israel who have form for stealing land, who have kept the people of Gaza in an open air prison for almost 2 decades will let people go home again?

There is aid waiting for Palestinians at the Egyptian border. Israel will not let them have safe passage.

Maybe it’s to aid organisations. I can’t imagine we give it to Hamas (I haven’t looked, if anyone wants to google to check)

if Palestinians all leave, Israel take over. It’s why not all Ukrainians left Ukraine. They’re done.

Which country can afford to take a whole nation?

I'm trying to make you see how stupid your views are.
😂

@Ididivfama The population of Gaza is only 2 million people. They could easily be taken in if they were spread around. Egypt and Jordan have been clear that the main reason they won't take them is because they think that's what Israel wants.

Do you understand that not all Ukrainian people will return? A lot of them don’t have place where to return and their relatives are killed, it doesn’t stopped neighbouring countries helping them and welcoming them.

Yup, I thought so. That's all you have to say because you can't defend the indefensible. It's OK.

Please quote the relevant holy scriptures for each religion that condone any of what is happening. Then we can discuss what is the cause of war.

War are started by egotistical men who want more power, more money, more control. Some will use religion as a justification. Some will use “we used to own that land” as a justification. They will do anything to justify their brutality and get the masses behind them. Religion is the easiest way to stir up the masses into hatred and get men willing to lay down their lives so that someone else will get more power.

That's all complete lies. Centuries of oppression is not 'peace'.

The British pre-WW2 were offering both the Arabs and the Jews a state. The Arabs repeatedly refused to allow the Jews to have any state on that land. They even refused an offer of just 500 square miles in 1938.

'In 1938, a new commission led by Sir John Woodhead made one more effort to come up with an acceptable partition proposal. That commission, again boycotted by the Palestinian Arabs, resulted in a complex and unworkable scheme that tried to alleviate Arab worries by increasing the size of the Mandatory portion of Palestine to include the Galilee. The Jewish State would consist of a small coastal area approximately 500 square miles in area. This proposal was rejected by both sides, and while its rejection by the Zionists was understandable, one can only wonder at its rejection by the Arabs. It was certainly a much better deal, from the Arab perspective, than the 1947 UN Partition Plan, which was also rejected by the Arabs.'

The Peel Commission Report of 1937 - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

But that will be their choice? The people of Palestine will not have that choice, can you not see the difference?

Why are you not asking why Israel will not let aid into the country? It is really normal in conflicts to allow aid agencies in with supplies. Israel are not. Why are you not asking why Israel is acting in such an inhumane way?

The establishment of the state of Israel is based on concepts of race, religion and nationality that we don't hold with at all in the UK. It's a state established to exclude non Jews, just as Pakistan was established to exclude non Muslims, completely ignoring tribal areas and existing settlements. Thanks to the British Empire who set up these artificial countries not to mention what they did in Africa and Ireland to create division and strife in the wake of the collapse of Empire, horrible spiteful actions which weakened the new countries and strengthened UK interests. The actions of Israel against the Palestinians were baked in to the foundation of the state. We
would never tolerate the concept of a single race or religion state in modern Britain and yet this is what was created in Israel and other ex colonies. South Africa was a prime example. This is why the situation in Palestine is sometimes called an Apartheid state. Britain has blood on its hands for these situations and needs to take responsibility for defusing the situation.

MN will censor any such reply. Don't you know that? Anyway, the idea that that could be done in a form short enough to fit on here is obviously ridiculous.

I don't know why you're responding to my pointing out that you're simply repeating a dead communist by paraphrasing him some more. You've just updated it to blaming the patriarchy in place of the capitalist class.

"Maybe it’s to aid organisations. I can’t imagine we give it to Hamas (I haven’t looked, if anyone wants to google to check)"

The money is usually channelled to aid organisations. However aid organisations always need permission/approval of a country's government before being able to operate (without undue hindrance) on the ground. That permission can come with conditions attached, some of which are written and some of which are unwritten. There's a lot more that could be said on this subject

Oh so those perfidious Brits just wanted to create division and strife out of sheer spite? And before that Muslims and Jews all lived in a peaceful utopia in both India and the Middle East right? Don't you think it's funny that the only group you're holding morally responsible here happens to be white?

Try reading the Peel Commission report from 1937, it'll help you understand what the British were actually trying to deal with:

The Peel Commission (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

@Pollyputhekettleon whatever. You can’t change history or the facts. Palestine was ethnically cleansed to create the State of Israel. A state which in 2023 engages in apartheid and genocide. We will unfortunately be stuck in this cycle of violence and crimes against humanity until Israel’s government and people accept that lasting peace will only happen when there is a just and fair solution which takes into account the rights of the Palestinians and they realize that no one group of people is superior or have a higher claim to the land than the other.

This is an interesting thread, thank you to all contributors.

Egypt has already been discussed, but what about Jordan? Isn’t part of it historically Palestine? Why aren’t they doing more to help civilian Gazans?

Look, some of the points you are trying to make are really valid and important. You will communicate them a lot better if you phrase them in a reasonable way.

@LivelyBlake what exactly are you expecting Jordan and Egypt to do? Israel is blocking aid and has restricted water, electricity and food and medicine. They are a nuclear power.

more broadly the people of Gaza are already refugees that were forced out of their homes and land once to make way for the state of Israel in 1948. A event known as the Nakba (look it up). They want a fair solution and rights over their own land, not to be made refugees again in another land. It shouldn’t be up to Jordan, Egypt etc to sort this out, it should be up to the government that’s oppressing them to give them basic rights and freedoms on their own land. Even if the neighboring Arab countries took them in they would never be allowed back. That’s not what the Palestinian people want, they want to be treated with dignity and humanity in their own land.

I truly struggle to understand how anyone can state hamas are to blame for the well over 1000 dead children killed by israeli bombs

We will never have peace in this world while such double think persists and nobody takes responsibility for the hard slog that is making peace in hard times with difficult enemies

@Pollyputhekettleon do you think that Britain should have stayed in Palestine? The Balfour declaration of 1917 agreed on a Jewish state in principle and no doubt after the Irish situation the UK were keen to avoid another possible area of war in the Middle East. They were desperate to leave but they used exactly the same playbook that was used across the empire- take a set square and a ruler and draw lines on the map, give support to division rather than spend time building political solutions, then light the blue touch paper and F off into the sunset.

After the Arabs had finished repeatedly refusing to allow their former dhimmis a single square inch of Islamic land out of the Palestine Mandate for their state, in 1948 the Jews declared independence anyway. They were attacked by all the neighbouring Arabs states, they won.

I'm not the one refusing to acknowledge that both groups have the right to the land, and equally importantly, to not have to share it with a group that oppressed them for centuries and shows zero remorse for that. Qatar literally continues to maintain second class citizens for non-muslims to this day.

But, yeah, understanding the root cause is terribly important one minute, then it's 'whatever' when earlier inconvenient historical facts are brought up.

I’m asking the obvious humanitarian questions . For many Ukrainians it’s not the choice either, none of them chosen to be in this war. But their neighbours are helping, Polish people are taking refuges to their homes in vast numbers, Poland looks completely different country now. It wasn’t government policies it was coming from hearts of people. It doesn’t look like people of neighborhood Arab countries feel the same about Palestinians.