meltdown triggered and evening spoilt by saying no to chips and rice

[reallybad]

Ds13 (adhd/asd) had been looking forward to going to a particular restaurant with a family member. We get there and ds asks if he can order his usual favorites and chips. I told him he didn't need chips as well and that was the last straw for him. He shut down, would not speak to anyone or eat anything and put himself to bed as soon as he got home.

Obviously if I'd known that was going to happen I would likely have said yes to the chips. We all had a totally miserable evening and it was heartbreaking to ses DS so overwhelmed when he'd been looking forward to it for so long.

The chips thing was actually the last straw, we were sitting at the wrong table, and the restaurant was also too busy apparently. These things also contributed to him feeling overwhelmed but I'm getting the blame from ds/dh for the whole thing for being mean/controlling.

I'm now trying to understand how wrong I was. It really feels right to me to discourage anyone from ordering chips and rice (on top of starters and a main dish). Also it feels wrong to just say yes to anything DS asks for incase he has a meltdown although obviously i don't want him to have a meltdown.

I feel like I really don't have a clue anymore

Dear God. Being a mum is the hardest job in the world. Made worse by a DH blaming you for everything that goes wrong.

You did nothing wrong OP.

Just tell both of them you don't know what the rules are anymore so it's safest if you stay home. But don't do it in a martyrish way, just let them get on with it.

Your needs matter too. Don't allow yourself to be a scapegoat.

I've already said it's not simplistic.

If there are concerns about weight and there is a pattern of wanting more and more food my answer would be different from a situation where the child was feeling increasingly out of control and their requests were an attempt to stem their sense of panic.

@CorylusAgain

OP has already said that food and eating is a bit of an issue.

I’m sorry you’re feeling this way, @reallybad. Hindsight is a wonderful thing when you can say “should have just let him order the chips”. As PPs have said, you can’t predict or prevent every meltdown. It’s shitty for you as you were probably looking forward to seeing him happy just as much as he was looking forward to going, and now you’re getting the blame for the night being ruined over something that, for most of us, seems so trivial. Of course it’s not trivial for your DS but you weren’t to know that.

It will soon blow over and you can try again at the restaurant another day, this time with chips and rice.

But I don't know all the other factors relevant to OPs son. His sensory needs, social anxiety, history of the day, previous experience with those other people that etc. I dont know what preparation was made prior etc. Nor can I guarantee he wouldn't have reached overload however accommodating OP was.

I'm just saying that being firm with he's got to learn to accept "no" often isn't helpful.

His eating issues are best dealt with in a neutral environment not a restaurant.

Experiencing and tolerating "no" is best built up from the least anxiety provoking situations . And it's worth learning a hundred alternative ways to divert rather than say no. This doesn't prevent young people from learning rules and laws of the land if cognitively able to do so.

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose

They didn’t have a discussion of factors that could be difficult and which table to sit at beforehand.

For instance, I prefer to be at a back of a room where I can see everything, I am near a bathroom incase I need a break, and prefer to have certain lighting/colour schemes. Hence we tend to go for the same 2-3 restaurants. And anything new requires almost a military scouting exercise.

The benefit of this is that what works for me tends to work for DC and we are always prepared.

It would be much harder for a NT Mum to assess what a ND child is going to feel like.

No need to be so judgey either.

For us with multiple ND people, getting through the experience is enough!!

Understanding the foods and how this relates to mental state can help.

I know if my child wants nuggets and chips it’s a bad day - forcing anything else is a bad idea.

If they go for fish probably in between.

Wanting red meat such as steak = top form.

Bolognese or anything with a sauce = absolute miracle.

It’s one thing if they are wanting lobster or 2 deserts… another if they just want a few chips and this is a regulating food for them to cope with a stressful environment.

That might work with an only child. But with multiple children it results in all the other children's needs being put second. So there has to be a fair approach

Yanbu about the chips. We never know what might set our nd kids off. You weren't to know.

I'm autistic and often put too much pressure on myself to enjoy an evening so it disappoints. It doesn't mean you should say yes to everything to avoid him shutting down it will help him learn to assert himself for next time.

I missed when he had a meltdown though. Was that when you got home?

I really thank @CorylusAgain for that very illuminating post. I learned a lot from it.

OPs situation was really complex, though: with multiple parties and cross cutting demands from DS. Maybe the best thing to have done would be to instruct DH to be DS’s safe person and have DH either satisfy all DS’s needs or agree to take him home if he can’t cope.

@WrongSwanson

I would agree with this to a certain extent. But equally the other children in the family need to support and understand the disabled person.

For example if you had a paraplegic child you wouldn’t force them to go into an area that couldn’t accommodate a wheelchair thus the other children would have to go to accessible spaces or perhaps have their day curtailed somewhat to be part of the family with a paraplegic in it.

A helpful balance might be to build the autistic child up separately to the family until they could join in fully, or take the NT kids out separately to compensate for difficult shared experiences, though this would require childcare.

However, it has to be said in most families where there is one autistic kid the others are too or have some traits meaning it is less of a me and them camp.

@CorylusAgain
I hear you with the supportive and nurturing of autism approach, I am a mix of this and tough love. DC is mainstreamed and I do not tolerate any sort of backchat/whining etc and am quick to say extended meltdowns are not acceptable.

I remove child from the area that meltdown occurred, sit and calm/focus on breathing exercises. If shouting at me or angry I say this is not an appropriate way to communicate, what can we say instead?

The reason being, boundaries were very important to me as an autistic child and helped to calm me. And the working world is not going to give DC a break. Also I worry about violence in the teen years so I insist upon respect now. Maybe different if you have a girl. Me dealing with a teen over 6ft having a meltdown worries me..

The OP seemingly decided he couldn't have chips because

1. he has history of ordering more than he can eat, and it going to waste
2. She personally doesn't agree with people ordering rice/chips on top of a main meal.

1 is relevant, 2 is personal preference she's pushing onto her DS, and really shouldn't be a factor in this.

How I would deal with this situation wouldn't have been to give a flat 'no'
I would have said something like "If we order them are you going to eat them? Last time they went to waste... how about we order some to the table and you can have some, then we'll share what you don't eat with everyone else?"

OR, knowing my DS personally, i might have negotiated donating some of my own chips and ordering myself a different side to replace what i gave him as that's pretty standard practice when there are chips being served.

My tip, choose when you will be a 'yes' parent and tell them. For example, I am the boring adult parent 90% of the time. Always setting and maintaining boundaries. But when we went to Disneyland, I told both DD and DH I was going to be a 'yes" parent for the three days.

Want stupid overpriced mouse ears? Yes. Want steak for breakfast? Yes. Want to wear a Rey outfit for three days? Yes. Want a giant blue drink made of sugar and additives? Yes. But once we get back home. No.

It helps ND children to know the rules. And DD can manage when I am each person. Because she knows it's a rule. A night out for a meal, I would be a 'yes' parent.

But DH blaming you is shitty. You're both navigating stormy waters. You need to work together and forgive things like this.

@SensationalSusie i deal with DS's meltdowns in a similar fashion.

At home i taught him to remove himself to a safe space, in public, that is coming directly to me. He's given a moment to get the worst of it out, then i will apply gentle pressure in a hug, and soothe him like any child that is upset/overwhelmed and help him breathe out of it.

I don't show anger, i protect him, reassure him he is safe, and loved, then as he calms, we talk emotions and what happened, let him calm then return him to where we're meant to be, but i keep a hawk eye on him.

He has VERY few meltdowns now, and they're always short, as he's had therapy to help him regulate emotions, i've had training as a Youth Mental Health First Aider, and 17 years of being his mom/carer so i can spot when things are going to happen and generally head them off before we get to meltdown.

@MrsTerryPratchett

It helps ND children to know the rules.

👏👏👏

And the adults too!

I don't think you should blame yourself for this, or be blamed by your son and husband. Your child needs to be parented and that means applying boundaries.

@PhantomUnicorn

Yes I don’t meet his behaviour with anger, but support, and firmly implement the routine we have developed to deal with the situation.

Always lovely to hear from a parent further down the road.

OP you are far from alone in dealing with these experiences.

My husband always orders chips with his curry and rice. I couldn't eat both but that's why I don't order both. Would your son actually eat it?

My ASD child tried a new food on Friday, he tried it and freaked out, ended up with a terrible stomach ache and in tears, I felt so proud of him for trying but so sad his body had such a visceral reaction to a fairly normal plain food.

Its such a hard thing to balance.

Also trying to explain to staff that certain foods must not touch 😢

I’m thinking of getting some of those “loop” ear plugs for restaurants as he starts to freak over the rumble of noise.

I havent read the rest of the thread apologies but I wouldnt have been doing so much apologising

I think there is a tendency to forget that children with ASD/ADHD are children first. That means all the normal strops and tantrums and contradictions and immaturity is there just like any teen. And just like any teen they can be badly behaved outside of and on top of any struggle they have to monitor and regulate and engage with their behavioural and emotional responses to the world around them

I think there need to be boundaries, perhaps articulated differently and prior on the next occasion but I dont think you did anything 'wrong'.

A lesson learned about planning differently perhaps.

Isn’t that kind of the point of going out for dinner ordering exactly what you want from the menu and probably over ordering. Double carbs is a mainstay of eating out (naan bread/rice pasta/garlic bread pub lasagna and chips).

within cost and it being on the menu that what makes going out much better thsn staying in!

maybe the ASD is a red herring here - her son was looking forward to going out and ordering what he wanted (and potentially had before) and the op decided to say no

It's so hard isn't it... Please don't beat yourself up for this. It's a one off, maybe try to have a chat with him in a moment of calm for both of you. I get it wrong often, we're learning everyday with our DS (8 with a diagnosis of ASD). I live with mum guilt worn as a badge!
We went to London yesterday and very narrowly avoided a meltdown due to the busyness of the streets, the noise, the fact we had to walk for miles (buses were disrupted), that he needed to go to the toilet but only goes at home for number 2s. We ended up in a very expensive restaurant ,and blew a week's worth of food shopping just so we could all sit, rest and try to help him regulate his overloaded nervous system. Thankfully, the restaurant was quiet and the food didn't take too long and tasted nice. You know what went wrong, that's the first step. Good luck.

Erm, yes? Because what’s the point otherwise?

(That was in respect of the second question!)