If you are anti-Zionist, what do you think Israel should do?

[Poudretteite]

Should Israel open its borders? Be given back to the Palestinian people? Where should the Jewish people go? What about the high risk of genocide?

Interested to hear as many people over the last few days have said they are anti-Zionist and that it's different to antisemitism.

First of all, it’s not a “conflict,” it’s a genocide. A conflict implies somewhat of an even playing field.

Fundamentally, I’m a human with a beating heart who sees all loss of life as equally devastating.

I haven’t engaged with certain posters much because their responses are either gaslighting or filled with not-very-thinly-veiled hatred of the Palestinians and/or Arabs and/or Muslims, so what’s the point?

I don’t think I’m so special that I can convert an extremist to compassion. I’m not going to head to a Nazi rally and expect them to suddenly value Jewish life as equal to white life. Equally, I’m not expecting a Jewish extremist to suddenly value a Palestinian life as equal to a Jewish life.

I’m only bothering to post because of people who may be reading this thread who don’t know much of the side of the Palestinians, who get an extremely biased narrative from the media.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-gazas-only-cancer-hospital-forced-to-close-as-israel-bombs-area-where-it-told-palestinians-to-flee-12986264

Gaza's only cancer hospital forced to close.

And the head of the Palestinian border crossing at Rafah has been killed in an Israeli airstrike. So I would guess that aid won't be getting through regardless.

So lets hypothetically say your theory is true, if there was one Hamas fighter inside a hospital then according to that Israel has a free pass to bomb the hospital? That is the only way around it? Is that correct? And before you say it I don't even want to hear what else do you expect Israel to do
I just want to know your own views. Just think for a second and then tell me, do you really believe that its justified?

The doctors are incredibly brave. I just cannot imagine.

Hamas are a terrorist group but they are also the government of Gaza. The kidnaps, rapes, torture, executions and rocket attacks that happened in Israel were ordered and sanctioned by Gazan politicians. They have 40 000 fighters. This is not a rogue group who are wanted within their own country. Put it this way, if a terrorist group operating out of France committed a similar atrocity upon the UK, we would not go to war with France. If the French army did it, on the orders of Emmanuel Macron and the French government, it might be a different matter.

I posted this on another thread:

Can we just have a look at the countries supporting Hamas/Palestine

Egypt
Jordan
Lebanon
Pakistan (allegedly)
Iraq
Syria
Iran
Saudi
Qatar

Those countries lack the following:

Basic Human Rights
No Equality for Women
No Democracy
No Equality for minorities
No Tolerance for minorities
No Religious Freedom (Maybe some in Lebanon)
No LTGBBQ Rights - Actual death sentences
Girls and Boys in Separate Class Rooms
Actual slavery going on right now.

Can anyone tell me why some people people in this country want to put their lot in with the above?

The people what put their lot in with the above also tend to ignore:

11,000 children killed in Yemen in War with Saudi
2,000,000 Christian refugees from Iraq
5,000,000 Refugees from Afghanistan feeling a brutal regime
2,000,000 Refugees from Sudan and South Sudan
2,000,000 Refugees from Syria

Why is it when Arabs and Muslims are kicking the shit out of each other you don't seem to care and only seem to care when it's Israelis doing it?

I will never understand you.

@Parkingt111
"So lets hypothetically say your theory is true, if there was one Hamas fighter inside a hospital then according to that Israel has a free pass to bomb the hospital? That is the only way around it? Is that correct? And before you say it I don't even want to hear what else do you expect Israel to do
I just want to know your own views. Just think for a second and then tell me, do you really believe that its justified?"

(Sorry, I'm using an old phone now that for some reason won't let me use the quote function!)

My own, personal, opinion is that Israel shouldn't have bombed anything that isn't exclusively Hamas infrastructure. They should have been quicker with evacuating the areas they need evacuating but also given them more time to do so. So eg on day one say "you have four days to evacuate" or something along those lines, so Israeli soldiers can go in and destroy all remaining Hamas tunnels and infrastructure etc and bring back the 199 hostages. Then retreat fully. I feel like this would have minimised civilian casualties while also hopefully fulfilling its purpose.

However, I assume there was a reason they didn't go about it this way, and I believe Israel has a right to defend itself in the way they think will minimise the risk to their own people. It's not like the rockets have only been fired by Hamas this week - it's been constant for years. Maybe not to the same extent as the past 10 days but I'm sure we can all agree one rocket aimed at civilians you're not even at war with is one too many? So they really do need to get rid of Hamas and their supporters once and for all.

To be clear, I don't agree with what Israel has done this week but I understand why they've done it. That's my personal stance and I speak for absolutely nobody else.

@OhHelloTheres clearly we will disagree on this but I appreciate you being honest about your opinion in your response.

This is exactly it.

I recall a while ago being horrified that Israel was being reluctant to accept homosexual asylum seekers from Palestine. Then I read Hamas terrorists were posing as homosexuals to gain citizenship.

I accept Israel does a lot wrong, but how on earth do you treat people kindly and fairly when you are constantly having to worry everyone is trying to kill you (and there is no low they will not stoop to)

I don't know anyone who supports him, but the last few days some who was very anti Netanyahu told me they'd changed their attitude in light of the brutal terror attacks and think there is no hope of peace and Israel has to just take over Gaza again.

Shame, as this person was very peaceful and left wing and wasn't supportive of Likud, but these sorts of things will change how people feel.

Likewise. I can't understand it either.

@LemonyTicket I have seen the shameful posts on Instagram of Israelis showing plans on how they will change gaza into new settlements for Israelis once the war is over. One American estate agent just gave a half hearted apology after being called out on it. Many comments saying yes that land belongs to us now etc
It's disgusting

Parkingt111
Even right now the UN have condemned in the strongest terms that Israel may be committing crimes against humanity.
'could amount to'
may not be considered as lawful

'could amount to' and 'may not be considered' are weak terms - not the strongest terms.

@LemonyTicket just one example
I know you won't but others will jump and say show us proof

Also for clarity for those of you who keep saying well why don't you just tell egypt to open its crossing. SAY WHAT YOU WANT. THIS IS A GENOCIDE

FROM THE BBC
Egypt has said suggestions it is refusing to open the Rafah border crossing are "inaccurate and improper", and instead Israel's aerial bombardments have made the crossing "inaccessible".
The crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt is the only route for aid supplies to enter Gaza from outside Israel, and the only exit that doesn't lead to Israeli territory.
"As far as we’re concerned the Rafah crossing on our side is officially open," Shoukry told the BBC World Service's Newshour programme

I'm sure many of you who are blind to Israels atrocities will find excuse after excuse for their on going genocide, schools, hospitals it doesn't matter, just brush off the deaths of children as wrong place at the wrong time

BBC
Six killed as Gaza school hit during Israeli air strikes - UNAt least six people have been killed when a school was hit during air strikes in the al-Maghazi refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, the United Nations says.
Dozens of others were injured, and it's thought the numbers will increase, according to the statement from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).
“This is outrageous, and it again shows a flagrant disregard for the lives of civilians," the statement adds. "No place is safe in Gaza anymore, not even UNRWA facilities."
UNRWA says the hit took place during Israeli bombardment of the Gaza Strip.
It adds: “At least 4,000 people have taken refuge in this UNRWA school turned shelter. They had and still have nowhere else to go.

Looks good! Could do with a monorail though.

@DavidSnow007 I won't report your post. You are just helping me prove my point

I blame the parents for deaths of Gazan children.

I honestly don't care, it's someone trolling on Instagram, you really need to get a grip.

@DavidSnow007 keep going. Keep exposing yourself, doing a great job

GENOCIDE.

At least 500 killed in hospital airstrike - health ministryThe number of people killed in the strike on the al-Ahli Arab Baptist Hospital has risen to at least 500, according to the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza.
Israel's military is looking into what happened at the hospital, our Middle East correspondent Alistair Bunkall reports.
Sky News is in the process of verifying these images, reportedly showing the scene of the attack.

The link contains nothing about ottomans. I feel there's significant misunderstanding here. Ottomans were Turks, not Arabs. Turks are Turkish people of Turkey, of anatolia. We have zero problem with Jews, Judaism, and Jews were not second class in Turkey ever. There was a tax, in 1600s, applied to non Muslims. Are we talking about this? There's never been any different clothing for Jews or massacres against Jews or anything like this in Turkey. I don't know what dhimni is, it is an Arabic word. Turks speak Turkish not Arabic. The language and culture are very different. We interpret Islam differently. Most Turkish people would be happier with a Jewish population in their country than a Arabic population. Yes of course there are many brainwashed idiots in Turkey but that's a different story. Please stop equating Arabs and Turks it's very offensive.

I've exposed my self as a supporter of human rights, equality of women, equality of minorities and a non-supporter of Palestine. I'll sleep OK tonight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67133675