To think this child’s crying outbursts are too much?

[ForgotTheBiscuits]

My DS’s friend, 4, has almighty meltdowns whenever he has to do something he doesn’t want.

For example, I collected both my DS and his friend from a party, and as soon as it was time to go, this kid begins crying, not actually tears but just the sounds, lots of sound. He refused to say thank you to the hosts or wish the kid ‘happy birthday’ before we left. It went on for the entire 20 minutes journey home. It bothers me that I can’t attend to my own child at all when this is happening, as dealing with the meltdown takes all my attention.

There is no consoling, I have tried on many different occasions when this happens (it’s very frequent!) to reassure, comfort, give hugs, distractions, humour - nothing works! He just commits to the crying and won’t engage at all, won’t listen or even make eye contact. And it goes on for a very long time!

When this boy is playing and doing what he wants, he’s has pretty good manners and makes eye contact, is affectionate and talkative.

His mum is incredibly gentle and I don’t think he even gets short shrift at any time from her. I would spontaneously combust if my kid did this all the time, it’s bloody annoying to say the least.

I’m good with kids generally, having worked with hundreds of them over the years, and have always been able to find a way to calm a child down somehow, but this kid has me at a loss and drives me insane!!

Is this Highly Sensitive Personality or something else?

My grandson was/is like this; he's 6 now and has been diagnosed with ASD. I find a lot of preparation in advance works, so tell him exactly what you're going to do - 'I'll pick you up, then we'll go to the party, you can play with your friends, then we'll go and see mummy' get him to repeat it back, then as you do each one ask what's next. Even better if you/mum can do a visual timetable like the one pictured.

If all else fails I fake tantrum myself, tell him it's my turn, bawl, then tell him it's his turn...that works every time but I don't really like doing it because it's not really dealing with the issue.

My grandson is getting loads better -at 4 I dreaded taking him anywhere, now he's mostly fine if he's prepped.

It may be annoying but he's clearly having very strong emotions about leaving activities that he is enjoying.

There could be so many reasons for this, Maybe he feels he does not have as much fun at home so the fun is permanently ending; He may not have experienced many negative experiences so when he does it's far more extreme; maybe he feels he has very little control in his own life so responds very negatively when what he wants to do isn't listened and responded to?

He could just be attempting to get his own way but doesn't sound like it's worked thus far so can't imagine he uses it as a ploy.

I think you may have to set your own boundaries with him as he's clearly responding like this due to reasons you have no control over.

And in today's Mumsnet game of "what animal shall we compare a probably disabled child to!"

Normally it's a naughty dog, so at least a parrot is a novel choice.

I don't at all understand why these threads turn into people being accused of being terrible to children with SN. This child may or may not have them. Sometimes it's just poor parenting. I think it takes away from children with SN to assume every child that has bad behavior has them. Plenty of SN children don't have bad behaviors. And honestly SN or not this would be too much for most friends of the parent to put up with

Totally agree.

Thank you! There have been some pretty harsh things said on this thread, but also some great advice and tips. I really struggle with this lad and do appreciate the help some have kindly given, and also the acknowledgment that this is a challenge!
@Donotshushme I manage my own children very well, thanks. It’s a dumb thing to say ‘lucky OP isn’t his mother…’ because the circumstances would be entirely different and I would respond to my own children in my own way.

Yes and it’s something I find quite frustrating. Children with SEN still need parenting and often boundaries have to be held firmer than a NT child because they don’t understand the nuances of life so well - ie today you were allowed a piece of chocolate before dinner because it was Easter but tomorrow you can’t.

not@Donotshushme sorry,
intended for@funinthesun19

Ah yes, I knew something else pissed me off.
I am empathetic to this boy and his mum, that’s why I am going out of my way for them and not curtailing looking after him. I posted here to work out what’s going on, how I can manage this best and for some acknowledgement that this is a tricky situation.
@Donotshushme I think you should actually shush unless you have any further gems of wisdom to share?

ForgotTheBiscuits
Not saying your friend is like this but I have been this child and the fake crying I did wasn’t about leaving a venue.

People who think it is have obviously never been in this position

For me occasionally it was the upset/frustration that my mother wasn’t there because I used to think if she saw how naughty or loud other children were it might make her think I wasn’t that bad.

But most of the time it was the thought of what was waiting for me at home that I tried to show people that something was wrong and it wasn’t leaving somewhere which was the problem but the going home that was awful and what was waiting for me

Have you asked his mum how she deals with it? Presumably she has to get him to do stuff he doesn't want to do? I don't mean say "bloody hell your DS is annoying with all the crying!" but you could say "your DS got really upset and cried inconsolably all the way home, does he do this a lot? I wish I could help him, what would you suggest?"

Could be ND and overstimulated so hence the meltdown. It’s really nothing to do with you and if you find neurodivergence so annoying, then find someone else to hang around with.

At the age of 4 children understand the meaning of agreeing on something, making a promiss. Maybe you ask that child in advance he will not cry or make a scene when it's time to leave. Make him promis, shake hands on it or pinky-swear or something. Repeat what you agreed on : no theater, no crying, when it's time we just go. I have a 4 year old grandson and he's pretty good at brokering a deal and - important - stick to it!

As others have said do a countdown, "We're leaving in 30mins, we're leaving in 25 mins, we're leaving in 20mins", also tell in advance we will be at the party for 1 hour and then it's time to go home.

My son was diagnosed ASD at 2yo and this technique really helped him (not saying this child has ASD) with the ending of a preferred activity. I started with reminding 30mins before the end and reminding him every 5mins, now I don't have to prepare him as much in advance.

Four Grandsons with ASD.
This child needs to be assessed.. all points to ASD.

You go from could be ND to if you can't handle ND child find someone else to hang out with???

How do some of you get through the day?

It's offensive to diagnose someone's child who you know nothing about or met. His father walked out on them and sees him when he wants mum is struggling to give him the attention he craves. It can't be the fucking obvious let's all pile on and say he's got ND. Fuck it

Nobody is diagnosing him but just saying it could be based on our experiences. Obviously, that is just one part but its really common for ND children to have meltdowns at the end of preferred activities.

Instead, you would rather accuse a 4year old of using his emotional distress to be manipulative and question his mothers parenting skills.

It's only offensive if you think there is something wrong with being ND.

So tell his mum that she has to be there and take him out and take charge of him if he behaves like this?
Or tell his mum that if he can't behave he can't come?
or that she has to make other arrangements to get him home?

I would pull the car over and tell him to shut up before you are completely distracted and kill you all !! (I’d probably shout! 1, in frustration, 2, to be heard)

probably not the “right” advice. But it’s what I do to my own children if they’re sounding off without reason.

has he ever actually been told to just shut up??? He might just be seeing how far he can push you. Mum might be calm, but she might nip that nonsense in the bud pretty quick either with what he wants, or with a look!!

special needs or not, life is about him & others learning to manage those needs. … staying alive driving a car is pretty fundamental to that!!

4 year olds are jade work. I have one and he is so sensitive and emotional. Especially after nursery and when he’s asked to do something he doesn’t want to do. I think there’s a leap at this age called the limbec leap ? Something like that. Emotions can be high and very sensitive

Hard work not jade work I meant

If the child is exclusively in your care, in your car, and is distracting you, I believe it is your place to discipline the child!

car crash … dangerous driving charge …. I was distracted by my friends child screaming in the car Your Honour, but I didn’t feel it was my place to discipline him, so I carried on driving with him distracting me.
….. not gonna wash!!

also tell the child’s parents he’s a little sh1t ! - they may well no & stop him! He could just be trying to get a reaction from you.

My child has sen and struggles with transitions. Saying 10/20 minutes before the party ends "we have to go home soon, not now but in 10 mins" helps a lot and has done since around the age of 3/4. At the park it's something along the lines of "you can choose a last go on three things before we go home"
Might be worth a go for next time.

(I'm not saying that this child has sen but the strategy might still work.)

If you're going to carry on woh the arrangement I'd handle it by acknowledging it and appearing nice but not getting sucked in to the drama whilst drawing a very firm boundary that you and your child wont engage with the behaviour and the world wont stop for it.

Get down to his level making eye contact and acknowledging him and give him a choice: Hey XX, I'm so sorry you're upset that were leaving, I understand that that's upsetting and that you feel like you need to get your feelings out, so cry as much as you need to. XXX (My child) and I will be carrying on as normal and we would love you to join in with us when you have calmed down.

Then start and forcibly hold a cheerful conversation with your own child and give them positive attention, even if that means elevating your voice to do so.

Some of the posters here are absolutely psychopathic. Calling a distressed little 4 year old boy with a mum too sick to take him to parties a brat, little shit, spoiled, manipulative etc. Some of you need to go to therapy before you start trying to give parenting advice to anyone else. Fucking weirdos.

OP what you're doing is lovely and kind, and no wonder you're getting stressed and overwhelmed yourself. I agree with the countdown/talking through what will happen in advance technique may help here. Would it be possible to video call mum on a phone in the car back from places too so he can see her and tell her all about the event? I feel so sorry for him.

I think for your son's birthday you should ask his mum to come and ask her what she needs to accommodate/support her being there. It's perfectly reasonable to say that as the host you will have your hands full that day.

You're doing a great job OP and the poor little boy and his mum are lucky to have you in their lives x x x