To think this child’s crying outbursts are too much?

[ForgotTheBiscuits]

My DS’s friend, 4, has almighty meltdowns whenever he has to do something he doesn’t want.

For example, I collected both my DS and his friend from a party, and as soon as it was time to go, this kid begins crying, not actually tears but just the sounds, lots of sound. He refused to say thank you to the hosts or wish the kid ‘happy birthday’ before we left. It went on for the entire 20 minutes journey home. It bothers me that I can’t attend to my own child at all when this is happening, as dealing with the meltdown takes all my attention.

There is no consoling, I have tried on many different occasions when this happens (it’s very frequent!) to reassure, comfort, give hugs, distractions, humour - nothing works! He just commits to the crying and won’t engage at all, won’t listen or even make eye contact. And it goes on for a very long time!

When this boy is playing and doing what he wants, he’s has pretty good manners and makes eye contact, is affectionate and talkative.

His mum is incredibly gentle and I don’t think he even gets short shrift at any time from her. I would spontaneously combust if my kid did this all the time, it’s bloody annoying to say the least.

I’m good with kids generally, having worked with hundreds of them over the years, and have always been able to find a way to calm a child down somehow, but this kid has me at a loss and drives me insane!!

Is this Highly Sensitive Personality or something else?

As a mum who is also ‘not very well’ - I have stage IV cancer and am bed bound at the moment - this seems overly harsh.

Without the support of friends, my DC, who is only 5, would not get to go to half the parties or play dates or fun things like trick or treating without another parent being able to drop her back or take her once in a while. The OP is trying to do the right thing by her friend. Maybe said child is crying because mum is ‘not very well’ & has anxiety over transitions or separation.
Not all parents can spring out of bed of a morning and merrily go about their day happily and energetically parenting, sadly.

But then again my DC does not do such annoying noisy crying. So I sympathise.

If your friend isn't well maybe she struggles with dealing with his behaviour and its easier just to give in. With my own son who was a class A whinger I'd pile him in the car and ignore it just talk over the top of it. My friends kid is no trouble, his sister takes my son up ten notches. With her I just jolly along literally just silly voice her into the car. Easier to pay no heel.

⬆️

Agree that if parents are stressed (illness) maybe they give in more. But in general this thread is mean-spirited, abelist & horrible.

The kid is 4 years old and some kids are not mature enough to process all the stimulation of a birthday party hence the meltdown. Every party I've been to particularly 4yo parties, there are a few kids that cannot emotionally regulate. You will hear cries, overexcitement and it's like a friggin mosh pit. My adult self after 2 hours of this needs to lie down when I come back from a 4yo's party and we are talking about kids who are 4yo, highly stimulated and cannot calm themselves and most likely high on sweets. But for your sanity, please don't take the responsibility of minding him.

Obviously not diagnosing but some of what you’ve mentioned are pretty common issues with autistic children (I have two, now young adults).
Best advice has been given by pp: prepare for transitions (“we’re leaving in 15 mins”, then 10, 5). Zones of regulation is also helpful. These are standard tools used by SEN professionals/teachers.

I would give my kids notice that an activity is about to end soon. 10, 5min warnings etc. If there's crying then we just stop and go home.
I would tell you DS and friend that if there's crying then, the playmate will end and you'll head home.
The explanation to the mother would be we came back early as 'friend' got upset amd wouldn't stop crying so I brought him home.
After a few times he'll get the message that his behaviour won't fet him favours in your home.

Well said.

Highly Sensitive Personality Another ‘label’ for poor behaviour.

If it bothers you so much, stop doing it. Or if you are going to do it, quit bitching, just comfort yourself with what kind friend you're being instead.

You are definitely not being unreasonable. I was a teacher for many years—there are plenty of parents who allow their children to get away with it. I had many children who would begin the year having outbursts and meltdowns. Once they realised that it didn’t work and it could lead to missing out on fun rewards and activities, those children were able to control their behaviour. Miraculously.

But why don’t you tell his parents that you no longer want to give this child a lift to/from places? You said it’s your childs birthday coming up, the focus should be on your child completely and not on this other child. You should ask his parents to come along and look after him, and not you as it’s unfair.

He might be also sensitive to sugar - can you bribe him ?

I agree the replies on this thread are pretty mean. My DD is like this - always have been. I’ve had hell trying to extricate her from parties. She’s ten now and still has meltdowns after a long day at school. There’s nothing you can do in the moment to stop it, you just have to stay calm and not react and let it work itself through. We thought she may be autistic but actually seems more like some kind of sensory processing issues. I don’t think it’s uncommon but have had a lot of judgemental looks over the years when it happens in public.
my other daughter doesn’t do it all all and I really don’t think this type of behaviour is always related to terrible indulgent parenting.

I’ve said yabu because the child is clearly trying to communicate distress.

I am not a well woman. My dd suddenly realised how ill I am when she started school. She stopped developing emotionally age 4. Dd wouldn’t let me out of her sight and became very controlling with me and it was hard but I was too ill to appreciate what was going on. She was also controlling of other kids but again, I couldn’t see it.

My friend, who’d looked after dd a lot told me she was concerned. She was pretty gentle. I was upset and embarrassed. She had obviously discussed the situation with a child psychologist she knew and suggested we consult her. It was the best thing we ever did. It was really hard for dd whilst she took dd through 18 months of development in about 5 months.

There may also be some sen but maybe not as this friend and I definitely still had to give our dcs transition warnings age 4. Maybe the child is also acting younger than his years and I hope you can understand a little more why. His mum probably is letting him get away with stuff for an easy life. It’s hard to create boundaries when you’re unwell.

You don't have to do it. But if you want to continue I would get him somewhere comfy like settee , pop tv on and say get me u I f you need me then go and play with your ds . Also get some earplugs!

Also is it transitions he struggles with? Does he need more warnings/reminders of when it will be time to leave.

@ForgotTheBiscuits His mum is having problems, so the family is very upset presumably. He's still very young.

I also think this is a really unsupportive thread about an unhappy child.

If you don't want to support the family then say you're too busy.

Was also thinking about bribing. If he can do x, he will get y.

Allow him 2 warnings before he loses the privilege. Also include countdown warnings you’re leaving. Then talk about how you can see he finds the end of fun times difficult, that you understand. And if he can be calm in the car, he can have y thing when he gets home. Then if he doesn’t, tell him you understand he’s frustrated, however, he’s at risk of not getting y and should stop now if he wants y. Then if he isn’t quiet, repeat, this time giving him one last warning. And if he does the same again. Say sorry. That was tough for him. But he can try again next time and you’ll keep y for him.

Is this Highly Sensitive Personality or something else?

Hell, no. It's called highly manipulative (and parentally-indulged) tantrums.

It’s called being a brat who needs discipline

He's probably ND, sounds a lot like my children if i don't give them the careful management they need, with countdowns, multiple heads up we are leaving in x minutes, finish what you're doing. But yeah, give him a punishment, that'll sort him out. Not. It probably looks like i mollycoddle my kids, but i do what i need to to make all our lives easier because of their disability. If they're overwhelmed and need to cry, then they need to cry.

Don't look after this kid anymore if you can't be arsed to try and figure out why he's behaving the way he is. You're not a friend to this woman. A friend wouldn't be judging her and her small child like this.

Children do well when they can. It sounds like there's something more going on here. Possibly neurodivergence, possibly not.

Transition is hard for some children, especially when they're enjoying themselves. Clear expectations about what will happen are key here, 'we are going to the party, these are the things that will happen there, and at x time we need to go to y'. Say the venue is closing because the man locking it up needs to go and have his tea, blame others!

I'd really big up the thing you are going to do next so it's motivating for him to move onto. Give him a reason to want to leave.

I say this as someone who has worked with many children over many years, many of whom have struggled with this. My own child has previously struggled with this (big emotional responses to transitions). It isn't always manipulation.

I think if you are looking after him so much you can get a but more involved with parenting him. It's hard to tell if he is a product of wet Lettuce parenting or if as others have said has some asd traits and struggles with transitions. Either way, doing things like giving time warnings, discussing the plan including 'what's next' e.g 'In 5 mins we will need to leave but then you can go on your ipad in the car' or something might help him. I do think if you are trying to drive and he is wailing in the back it is perfectly acceptable to tell him off.....if the short shrift doesn't work with him then do consider that he might have something else going on.

@Donotshushme
So would you ask another parent to bring your child home from a party knowing they would behave that way? Why should this woman be expected to figure out why they are behaving this way”?

Seriously people calling a 4 year old a brat? Get over yourselves! My DS with SEN would have done this at 4. My younger DC does not. You're not better parents, you're lucky. And when your DC come up against trouble, I feel for them. As you have no tolerance or empathy.

So the kid has a mum who’s got mobility issues/is unwell? This could absolutely be a factor. Also, every example you give of a ‘tantrum’ involves a transition. IME when a kid is THAT dysregulated it’s not that they’ve ‘committed to crying’ it’s that they literally can’t get themselves back together. And then generally have a horrible feeling of shame afterwards that they lost it and aren’t coping as well as other kids. Definitely sounds like there’s more to this than being ‘annoying’.

Just as a thought experiment - and I say this with kindness as I have a ND child who, let’s be honest, can be VERY annoying at times (😂🫢) imagine that something has happened and you’re absolutely devastated. Crying so hard you can’t get your breath upset. And your partner ignores you, or tells you that’s quite enough… how likely are those strategies to work? I mean, you might be able to stop, but would your needs be met? Would you feel ashamed or embarrassed? There’s a strong likelihood this kid feels like that too.

Do his parents usually give into him when he cries like this? Because I’ve only really seen it in a friend’s dd. After she’d cried and screamed for 10 or 15 minutes, her mother would invariably give in. There would then be a triumphant beam - ‘I’ve won again!’ And her mother would give that helpless, ‘What can you do?’ shrug.
The last time I saw it, the child was around 8.