To think this child’s crying outbursts are too much?

[ForgotTheBiscuits]

My DS’s friend, 4, has almighty meltdowns whenever he has to do something he doesn’t want.

For example, I collected both my DS and his friend from a party, and as soon as it was time to go, this kid begins crying, not actually tears but just the sounds, lots of sound. He refused to say thank you to the hosts or wish the kid ‘happy birthday’ before we left. It went on for the entire 20 minutes journey home. It bothers me that I can’t attend to my own child at all when this is happening, as dealing with the meltdown takes all my attention.

There is no consoling, I have tried on many different occasions when this happens (it’s very frequent!) to reassure, comfort, give hugs, distractions, humour - nothing works! He just commits to the crying and won’t engage at all, won’t listen or even make eye contact. And it goes on for a very long time!

When this boy is playing and doing what he wants, he’s has pretty good manners and makes eye contact, is affectionate and talkative.

His mum is incredibly gentle and I don’t think he even gets short shrift at any time from her. I would spontaneously combust if my kid did this all the time, it’s bloody annoying to say the least.

I’m good with kids generally, having worked with hundreds of them over the years, and have always been able to find a way to calm a child down somehow, but this kid has me at a loss and drives me insane!!

Is this Highly Sensitive Personality or something else?

“X This is how it is and how we are doing things. You can continue to wail and cry but nothing will change. If you carry on the only person being upset is you as I will not be responding to such silly behaviour, or you can stop and we can talk about your feelings and why we have to leave the party. “
My kids were made aware early on that we would not engage with tantrums or brattish behaviour. I would actually tell
this child His behaviour is unacceptable and that if it continues then unfortunately you will no longer be able to spend time around him. Why should you and tour child have to suffer because of his poor behaviour and useless over indulging parents? Be honest and tell the parents you cannot tolerate the behaviour as it ruins every outing.

@Truthbomb my 4 year old is just like this too. Sending you patience and strength, it’s so so hard.

I would step over my DD having a tantrum on the floor and say to DS ooh look what I have downstairs to show you/play with. Walk away and ignore her. She'd eventually creep downstairs and peer round the door. Would let her join if if crying stopped. Didn't have to do it many times before the tantrums dried up

Aww @Carpediemmakeitcount my mum could have written this when I was at uni!

Once I was diagnosed autistic/adhd it made my life make more sense and gradually I stopped feeling suicidal... she still has no idea and tells everyone how I used to have some behaviour issues but her "keeping me right" sorted them out and I was a happy child. Actually, her not being interested in my emotions and just telling me how good a life i had/that I needed to behave just made me bottle it up.

Sincerely, someone trained medically.

Eeek, I just think poor DD - having a perfect older sibling is not good. And don’t say DS was treated the same - he was the first born and got all of everyon’sattention with no rivalry.

And all children with autism and ADHD behave exactly the same don't they... 🙄

The op asked a question that had nothing to do with a diagnosis. Her friend is having a hard time being a single parent and the father seeing his son only when he wants. You have anything to add to help the op. This isn't my thread. You heard of separation anxiety when one parent disappears without an explanation.

It’s really disgusting. Page after page of spiteful people being nasty about a small child, and smug about how THEY never tolerated such manipulative, “bratty” (ugh) behaviour. Just horrible. OP if I were you I would remove this thread. If your friend is having a hard a time as you say, and you like her as much as you claim, the last thing she needs is to read this.

I'm truly sorry for your lack of emotional intelligence.

I know, imagine writing "I never tolerated them being unable to hear/walk etc, what a brat!"
Few children are diagnosed with ND conditions at 4, it sounds very likely. And then dealing with mums illness. Poor thing.

She’s just had a new sibling, some regression is totally normal.

You say you’ve tried everything, but have you tried just validating the child’s feelings ?

‘oh, you’re feeling upset you have to leave ? That’s so hard, I also don’t like leaving. It’s ok to be sad, but we do have to go’.
It can go a long way sometimes. This tactic has to be used sincerely though.

lots of people here saying maybe his parents let him get away with lots. But very often, children whose parents let them feel their emotions and don’t punish them for feeling sad, unhappy, feel much more free to express their emotions. Yes, his behaviour is inconvenient, but if more children were free to express their emotions, maybe we’d have fewer emotionally stunted adults.

There’s a lot of judgement here of a mum who isn’t here to defend himself. judgement of someone when they are hearing a second hand account of a child that isn’t even theirs. Parenting is hard, we all do it differently and that’s ok. If more of us came from a position of kindness and wanting to understand , parenting would be so much easier.

One phrase I read somewhere that's been a game changer for my ND son is, used about 5 mins before we leave so mewhere, is "what do you have to do to be ready to leave?". That gives him time to run/flap/get a specific toy etc and really seems to help.

Agree with Pp's that going in the car with you could also be a huge trigger for this wee one that his mum is not there to do things with him, and maybe the excessive tears are him releasing all the anxiety ge holds together at home.

Too many kids aren't getting adequate boundaries any more and this is the result. Boundaries help them to feel safe .

This child could be on the spectrum for adhd/autism or something similar & find it difficult to control his emotions when things aren’t going his way

He's 4. He's upset. I don't see what he's done wrong? You've taught your child to suppress their emotions in order to maintain attachment to you, she hasn't so his emotions come out in the form they're supposed to. He didn't hurt anyone, he just felt things.

And we wonder why children grow up to be emotionally immature...let 4 year olds be 4 year olds fgs

Here here 🙌🏼

I have no advice and I haven’t read all the replies but I read a few posts at the beginning telling you you are doing too much and should stop looking after this kid without his mum. I just wanted to chip in and say I think it’s really admirable what you are doing to help your friend and her LB. Especially when he is obviously very challenging. The world is a better place for kind people like you helping other people out so bravo 👏

I think we should stop excusing every occurance of bad behaviour with a name that makes it acceptable. Whatever is causing it, it’s not acceptable.

He's a spoilt brat who never hears no. There’s a boy in my daughters class who is well known for his outbursts when not getting his own way / being picked for an activity / winning. He cries, screams, and lashes out at people around him. “I wanted to come first!” is a phrase he regularly screams at anyone who will listen. His mother is oblivious and believes he’s a beautiful, gentle child.

next time it happens, don’t give him any attention other than the basics necessary to ensure his safety. Walk him to the car, give him functional instructions, fasten him into his seat, drive. Talk to your child. If he engages, talk to him too. Otherwise, leave him to his tantrum. When dropping him off at home I would have been saying something like “we had a little issue when leaving the party, unfortunately [child] wasn’t happy about leaving and caused a bit of a scene. Just wanted to let you know.”

Judgemental much @Trakand01 ? I would put money on that child having some SEN. I remember children just like that from childhood, and remember feeling annoyed at the time - it is annoying when certain children lose their cool when they lose
a game/aren’t picked. But I was a child,
and as an adult looking back I can now see that chances are, those children had some different ways of viewing the world.

@Londonscallingme thank you so much. I have been wondering if I never should have sought advice here, as there have been some unpleasant things said, towards the little boy, his mother and myself, and I think some people have been hurt by what has been said which I am sorry about.
Amongst the many helpful things said, the more harsh ones have given perspective that I really want to be on the kind, supportive and measured side and not dismissive and reactive, which is really difficult under stress!

There’s a lot that explains the behaviour and if I’m going to be useful, I either need to buckle up for the turbulence or not put myself in the situation. Probably a bit of both is the answer.
I have been given lots of useful advice and suggestions which I will use.

I'm glad you have found some of the responses useful xx

@fivelilducks I have been mindful since before my children were born of the importance of nurturing secure attachment in them and I am aware of helping them navigate intense emotions in a healthy way. I certainly don’t suppress my children’s emotions, I’m not sure what gives you the impression that I do!

After this party last month, it did actually put quite the downer on the birthday boy’s birthday, as instead of ‘thank you for having me/happy birthday’ etc., all the kids and parents were drowned out by wailing and it was sad. I couldn’t speak with my own kid as the noise was too much, and my son fell silent as he accepted that it was once again a case of riding it out. It’s not very nice for him when this happens and I feel like a fish out of water dealing with another child. I don’t want him to feel like that on his own birthday either!

Reading all your posts it sounds like he can forget his worries for a bit when he's at those playdates and is really scared at the idea of going home due to his mother's illness. I'm sure she's every bit the warrior that you say however children do pick up on the smallest vibes.

My DH has long covid and really tries to hide it from DS. But he still remembers the non-exhausted, fun dad and he extra money that let us do nice things. And he's sad and a bit scared and disappointed and loads more feelings. He's older and can chat away with me about it knowing that he can say how he feels and then once it's off his chest or gotten reassurance about something, he's fine again.

I think the 4yo can't effectively verbalise it the way another older child does. And having a sick parent is scary at that age. That said, I can imagine being at the end of my tether about it too. Hope between you and the mum, you can find a way to help the little guy with these big feelings.

That’s a great idea. Similar concept to my “can you help me find the car” or “right where did we put your shoes” but gives them a bit more choice and more engaging.