To think this child’s crying outbursts are too much?

[ForgotTheBiscuits]

My DS’s friend, 4, has almighty meltdowns whenever he has to do something he doesn’t want.

For example, I collected both my DS and his friend from a party, and as soon as it was time to go, this kid begins crying, not actually tears but just the sounds, lots of sound. He refused to say thank you to the hosts or wish the kid ‘happy birthday’ before we left. It went on for the entire 20 minutes journey home. It bothers me that I can’t attend to my own child at all when this is happening, as dealing with the meltdown takes all my attention.

There is no consoling, I have tried on many different occasions when this happens (it’s very frequent!) to reassure, comfort, give hugs, distractions, humour - nothing works! He just commits to the crying and won’t engage at all, won’t listen or even make eye contact. And it goes on for a very long time!

When this boy is playing and doing what he wants, he’s has pretty good manners and makes eye contact, is affectionate and talkative.

His mum is incredibly gentle and I don’t think he even gets short shrift at any time from her. I would spontaneously combust if my kid did this all the time, it’s bloody annoying to say the least.

I’m good with kids generally, having worked with hundreds of them over the years, and have always been able to find a way to calm a child down somehow, but this kid has me at a loss and drives me insane!!

Is this Highly Sensitive Personality or something else?

Wow some of these replies are mean. If the child is not perfect, then god forbid you should engage (yes this is dripping in sarcasm).

He sounds insanely annoying but you’re doing the right thing stepping in and helping because he is your sons friend but also the poor kid is going through a lot more than the vast majority of kids will ever know. Helping the mum out like you are is a really kind thing for you to do - for her and him. All mums worry about whether their kids have friends, aren’t missing out etc so no doubt your help will be a big source of comfort to her.

However I do think gently raising the issue with her is worthwhile. Can’t you have a word when they’re not in ear shot and Just explain you’ve noticed that he does have quite significant meltdowns during a period of transition and are after some advice on how you can manage that to make it easier for him. This will do two things:

1. let her know the kids a challenge for you
2. if she isn’t aware he has issues (whatever the cause) this gently makes her aware

You’re asking her from a place of asking advice then and not a critical and judgemental way, making her feel embarrassed.

My daughter is 4 and has almighty meltdowns. We never give in to her, she used manners too and meltdowns do not get her her own way. This hasn’t stopped them happening unfortunately. She had one yesterday because I said no to going to the park after school (it was cold and windy and I needed to get home and feed my 3 month old).

A meltdown began, she attacked me, punched, kicked, hit, screamed and was completely inconsolable. At one point she tried to dart in to the road and I had to restrain her to get her in the car. This lasted for 20 minutes until I got her in the car. All the school parents were witnessing this and likely assuming I lack parenting skills and spoil her, all the usual tripe. It can be really hard to hear people saying ‘over indulged child’. My child receives a lot of love from me but I implement firm boundaries. Despite these almighty meltdowns and the judgement people show towards me I do not give in and I do not go back on my word.

Not every case of extreme behaviour is to do with being over indulged. Unfortunately there is absolutely no reasoning when she reaches this point as you have said. Nothing works. Nothing. It has had me in tears many times and I am now at the point where I avoid play dates because of it.

I have reached out for a professional opinion and been told this is normal behaviour. I disagree but it’s hard when she excels in all other areas of life. She is happy in school, she enjoys learning, not a fussy eater, her speech is fantastic and her eye contact is fine.

The point of my post is to say that I appreciate this may seem abnormal to you but just because you haven’t experienced this with your own child doesn’t mean the boys parents are failing or not bothering with boundaries/consequences.

Sounds like he may have ASD; my son was similar at that age. We give him a warning when it was close to the time for something to end/to leave somewhere. He was diagnosed with ASD at 6.

Can the mum find someone else to collect? I know you want to support your freind

Maybe this child is letting out there emotions. If his mum is not well
maybe they can’t play or interact much at home with him so he’s bored and lonely at home , so he is so disappointed that he’s got to go home this is the only way he knows how to it as he can’t explain his emotions in words just like a lot of normal children do when they have to leave the park after a particularly wonderful time there , either that or he may well have autism etc as he has been with you enough times now to know a tantrum won’t get him what he wants so I doubt it is solely that .

Nonsense.

Not saying this child is being, but, children can be manipulative. They literally manipulate you into feeding them and looking after them from a tiny age. So there's every chance a 4 year old can be. He might just need some boundaries in place to feel secure.

DS does this too so I got a psychologist to see him (I know someone and was fast tracked a private appointment). Apparently it isn’t ‘normal’ - it’s something only highly intelligent & driven children do and often tantrumns / stubbornness etc between 2-4 results in children being highly motivated / doing very well /taking on leadership positions in adulthood.

@Truthbomb maybe autistic, a lot of girls don't really show it more obviously till puberty ish but some do earlier. Worth looking into and keeping in mind.

Prevention is key with children with behavioural struggles. Damage control is useless once the child has began to explode.. especially if you’re dealing with a neurodiverse child.

my son has asd and he had awful meltdowns- (not just tantrums) Prior to a diagnosis; I just decided to implement strategies that would benefit a child on the spectrum- to be honest, a lot of the strategies are good for ALL children anyway! Warnings and timers are excellent for allowing the child to come to terms with the fact a certain activity is ending soon. Mini sand timers are a good visual way of showing a child that it’s time to go. Having a visual or clear explanation of Now and Then and forced choices.

Youre obviously being very kind to help out but I think it would be absolutely okay for you to mention the child’s behaviour to their parent- you’re spending loads of time dealing with him after all! Perhaps mum will be relieved you’ve mentioned it and then you can run by some ideas for next time.. but you’re also completely reasonable to stop taking him too, he’s not your child and if it’s ruining your time with your own then that’s okay and who you put first!

He is 4 years old. He's not a little shit, he's struggling with transitions. Neither we nor the OP know why. There may be SEN, he might just be maturing a bit more slowly than his peers, he might not want to go home and the end of an activity because it's not a happy place to be. I'd love to know how you expect his parents to stop it because once a child has gone into that place interventions only make it worse.

In what way is it ableist? She isn't discriminating against the Mum, who has health problems, she is actively trying to help her out. She is finding it difficult dealing with someone else's frequently histrionic child on a regular basis, which hardly seems unreasonable...

Are you okay who said anything about a 4 year old being manipulative his father has walked out. Where are your emotions towards a child who can't see his father when he wants. His mother is on her own raising two boys. Rather than throw around diagnosis why not show a little empathy. The diagnosis can wait and the op hasn't suggested that he needs diagnosing. For your information my daughter behaved in the exact same way because there was no family. She turned out just fine because I put my foot down and got on with it.

He is 4! Why all the dramatic responses from the perfect parents on here. If it bothers you that much don’t collect him simple. Personally if I was in your shoes I would just ignore the behaviour. You really are making a big deal out of nothing though in my opinion.

I also have years of experience working with children and have an older child, but… my youngest daughter behaved this way, not generally in public but at home. In most other situations she was compliant and appeared to others a very confident and outgoing child, but actually she has always been anxious and eager to please (she’s 22 now and remains an outwardly confident person, but is plagued with self doubt) My child had no issues at home, was secure and loved and yet would have these almighty melt downs over the slightest thing and they could last for hours, any perceived lack of control at home, would send her spiralling. Nothing at all would stop the crying and when she did finally calm down, she would then cry harder that she had upset me or let me down. I’m sorry to say but this lasted from when she was a toddler until she was around 10, when she finally became a bit more able to express herself verbally. I tried everything and in the end the only thing that worked was gentle ignoring and reminding her that I would talk to her when she was calmer and ready to talk. I believe now, that she always tried so hard to be perfect in everything she did and I/home was her safe space to let out all her angst, so it wasn’t really the perceived trigger but just her moment for emotional release. Perhaps you are just this child’s safe space. I commend you in continuing to help and support your friend as it is so difficult dealing with these emotional crisis, especially when nothing you try seems to help ease their upset. I should add I wasn’t of the same parenting style as your friend, there were definite rules in my house and consequences for unacceptable behaviour, but it made no difference to my strong willed child, when she wanted to be heard. Sometimes I think they actually just need to let all that pent up emotion out, and we need to remind them in that moment that they are safe and loved, and all will be ok. Good luck x

Again, who is throwing around a diagnosis? It seems like your getting offended because you buried your head in the sand like lots of parents choose to do which is why there are so many adults getting late diagnosed.

Even my partner wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until he was 38 even though it could have been identified from childhood because people chose to ignore it because of stigma from people like you who thinks it's offensive to even suggest a possibility.

What's actually offensive is you acting like ND people are less than NT's

You are not medically trained to tell me anything dear. I will listen to a professional not someone of the street who think they know a thing or two. You don't know me or my struggles my kids have been misdiagnosed at the age of 4. Guess what they need a chance to grow and mature first. I listened and took action near enough lost my mind and now my daughter is at university studying medicine. The school apologised.

In the 90's there was children who were diagnosed with ADHD and took medication for it. It's not a new phenomena.

Have you tried a count down for leaving/stopping? An egg timer or something on your phone? This sounds so much like my little one, who would later be diagnosed as an autistic with ADHD. Obviously there's no way of knowing if this child is ND or not, but if he is it's worth noting that techniques used on most children can take several weeks, but adding in the ND will extend that much further. My son took almost a year to learn to listen to his countdowns for his screen time, a year of meltdowns, broken pc monitors and head bangs that I'm surprised didn't knock him out he was so stressed. But eventually we got there! Not that helps you right now but it might be worth bringing it up with his mother so you can both work from the same page and see if helps the little one with transitions.

Ok, your point is? My partner also went to university and was still diagnosed with ADHD when he was 38. It's almost like being ND doesn't mean you're not intelligent. Gasp, shock, horror.

Yes, he could have been diagnosed when he was a child but his parents didn't want to believe it and disagreed with the school when they suggested assessment.

A friend of mine has a child with ADHD and she is struggling to get the support he needs and the right medication. A teacher walked out the classroom in tears because he weren't listening to her and the school still won't do anything. She fears the day he enters secondary school. I don't know whether it's the same for all areas in the country but it does feel like a postcode lottery to what support your child can realistically expect.

Sometimes visual count downs can help child feel included and in control of a transition. An example could be using your fingers to show five minutes, three minutes until we go etc, or something that can be viewed like an egg or sand timer. Also talk through what happens next after the countdown.

When children have stress or change added to their lives some children can regress in their behaviour to act much younger emotionally and physically. Encouraging a child to "use their words" so we can help with what is upsetting them sometimes works if you can see the meltdown brewing.

Using calming music in the car might help set a different mood. Using a favourite toy to help with transition "lets take teddy/toy car back to the car" puts a focus on a toy rather than them. If the child is in anyway competitive sometimes racing them to finish a task sometimes works or asking them to help you with a special job such as carrying something for you.

Apologies if you've already tried all of the above! It does sound like he may be struggling with understanding his mum's illness, all behaviour is communication!

Not OP, Rose, who I agree is being lovely to her friend & having a difficult time with her child. I mean many of the replies which are just like fuck that mum if she can’t be there to discipline her child don’t have anything to do with her … seemingly ignoring the mum’s quite obvious and serious health issues. She clearly can’t be there all the time because she’s ill. That’s what’s ableist.

My sons autistic and has ADHD and never did this it sounds awful. Stop the lifts.

You can have Sen without having autism or ADHD you know.

I have a neurodiverse child. I've often thought this is how people will view his behaviour and it makes me really sad. He's a lovely child but can't process some things and yes it can be annoying but it's not his fault in the slightest and he is far from Bratish!!