To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

What happened last night on this forum was censorship against people who did not agree with the way Israel is punishing the Palestinian collectively which is illegal under international law.

What happened last night on this forum was censorship against people who did not agree with the way Israel is punishing the Palestinian collectively which is illegal under international law

Most of what was posted last night was unverified information and much of it was highly inflammatory.

As you can see this morning, there isn't even consensus about who is responsible.

Military ordnance is identifiable. There is also audio from the militants. All the evidence will be independently verified.

If Israel did this I would strongly condemn it but as it stands its Islamic Jihad. A rocket from a cemetery in Gaza that misfired.

And hugging Netanyahu. It was wonderful to see his support for beleaguered Israel still reeling from the terrorist atrocities.

Quote from Biden an hour ago:

"I am deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion in the hospital in Gaza yesterday," says Mr Biden.
"And based on what I've seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you," he tells Mr Netanyahu.
"But there's a lot of people out there who are not sure, so we have got to overcome a lot of things"

+++

Of course as an ally of Israel the counter argument will be "of course he would say that wouldn't he".

But what is clear is that it is not clear who did it and even if it was clear then the other side would still disagree.

The assertion that the type of explosion could not have been created by Hamas or PIJ has been all over the media, but ultimately pro-Israel people will believe whatever they want to believe. All of the language used by Netanyahu is the language of a deeply racist, genocidal government, and the people defending them must be fine with that, so I wouldn’t waste too much breath on extremists of any kind.
——
"The al-Zaytoun neighbourhood in the north of Gaza is an area where hundreds of civilians have been killed in days of intense Israeli bombardment," it added.
“When the footage of the hospital bombing is examined, it becomes obvious that the ammunition that had the effect of destroying the area was not the type that Hamas had previously employed,” the statement stressed.

Analysis of false media posts found that “images shared by Israeli propaganda accounts claiming that a 'Hamas missile hit the hospital' were from 2022,” not 2023, it added.

The center also cited a recent statement in which “the Israeli army demanded the immediate evacuation of hospitals, alleging that they were being used as shelters,” bolstering the case that it was Israeli forces that carried out the deadly airstrike, and that it did so deliberately.

"The claim shared on some social media accounts that 'Gaza's official account admits that Hamas carried out the hospital attack' is not true,” the center noted, pointing out that the “'Gaza Report' account cited as the basis for the claim is not the official account of Gaza or any Palestinian institution
In fact, it said, "It has been determined that the account was used for manipulation purposes."

This sums it up well.

Biden's statement was surprisingly equivocal.

Sky News analysis

Analysis: Probability is Israel's explanation is correct - but we're dealing in probabilities and won't know for sure
An explosion that officials say killed 500 people in a Gaza hospital was "probably" an accident from within Gaza, according to a defence analyst.
Michael Clarkee_ told Sky News that while many nations in the Middle East have blamed Israel, the "reality is probably the opposite - but we're only dealing with probability here".
The keys to certainty are whatever missile fragments remain on hospital grounds, but these are under Hamas's control, he said.
Casing or parts of the warhead can provide 95% certainty as to where the missile came from - but "we won't get that", the analyst explained.
"I would expect Hamas to produce some sort of Israeli missile at some point derived from somewhere and say 'this is the missile that hit the hospital,' and that may or may not be true."
The balance of probability points to Israeli claims being true - that the Palestinian Islamic Jihad misfired a rocket, he said.
When pressed, he put the probability at 60-70%.Analysis: Probability is Israel's explanation is correct - but we're dealing in probabilities and won't know for sure
An explosion that officials say killed 500 people in a Gaza hospital was "probably" an accident from within Gaza, according to a defence analyst.
Michael Clarkee_ told Sky News that while many nations in the Middle East have blamed Israel, the "reality is probably the opposite - but we're only dealing with probability here".
The keys to certainty are whatever missile fragments remain on hospital grounds, but these are under Hamas's control, he said.
Casing or parts of the warhead can provide 95% certainty as to where the missile came from - but "we won't get that", the analyst explained.
"I would expect Hamas to produce some sort of Israeli missile at some point derived from somewhere and say 'this is the missile that hit the hospital,' and that may or may not be true."
The balance of probability points to Israeli claims being true - that the Palestinian Islamic Jihad misfired a rocket, he said.
When pressed, he put the probability at 60-70%.
The Iron Dome system allows Israel to track rockets headed toward Israel, which makes IDF's assertion that it knows missiles were fired from behind the hospital "plausible".
But "there will always be a substantial area of doubt which Hamas will certainly play on", said Clarke., which makes IDF's assertion that it knows missiles were fired from behind the hospital "plausible".
But "there will always be a substantial area of doubt which Hamas will certainly play on", said Clarke.

• it's not clear who did this - though "independent analysts" say that Hamas plausibly did this

• who benefits most? this has all of social media blaming Israel for genocide. Hamas must be pleased with that.

• who stood to lose? The Gazans- and Hamas does not seem to care particularly about their well-being any more than the Israelis

• who would I believe? Hamas has shown us who they are - bloodthirsty butchers. They filmed their acts of savagery for social media, remember. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

So I am still reserving full judgment but am inclined to think that Hamas could well be responsible.

This is an important comment:

""I would expect Hamas to produce some sort of Israeli missile at some point derived from somewhere and say 'this is the missile that hit the hospital,' and that may or may not be true."

For enjoyment!!!!!!!

Can you post the evidence please

Well Israel has plenty of previous form for murdering civilians and journalists and then blaming Hamas.

The IDF put the audio footage of the supposed Hamas discussion of the hospital explosion up on their Twitter page. And I have seen the briefing, shown on the BBC, by the IDF military spokesman, which also refers to it. Is there any evidence at all that it might not be what it seems? I have seen it being questioned but I don't know on what basis.

If it is what it seems, i.e. recorded last night and not at any other time, then it seems pretty conclusive, doesn't it? And if it not what it seems, what does that mean for the IDF's credibility? It seems a very important piece of the picture.

They also seem to have evidence it wasn’t them last night.

I did think "the other team" was rather off in the circumstances. This isn't baseball, Joe.

Even in the cold light of day some people refuse to believe that it was one of the terrorist organisations.

I'm reminded of the Salisbury poisonings, where a nerve agent which had been developed by the USSR was used to poison Russian dissidents (not to mention two Brits who were in the wrong place at the wrong time). Two GDR agents had travelled to the area (cathedral enthusiasts they said). It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to point the finger, does it? Yet a certain Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition thought that we ought to send samples off to the Russian Government so that they could tell us if it was them who did it.

Some people will defend the most awful regimes on the basis that "my enemy's enemy is my friend".

'Spose at least he didn't call them the 'other folks'

And there’s Equally evidence the other way.
Which is why speculation is dangerous.
Including by Mr Biden

Hamas for sure. With the world watching Isreal isn't that stupid.

Meanwhile, a synagogue has been attacked in Berlin

The UN are calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.
What are the chances?

Germany has already announced Israel should basically carry on

None of the so-called “evidence” has been independently verified as legitimate, so at this point it’s nothing more than a genocidal State trying to save its own image, which Israel has done numerous times before.

It is so unbelievably easy to fake the “evidence” that has been presented.

Netanyahu and his ilk need to be tried in an international court for their flagrant war crimes, but I doubt we’ll see it in our lifetimes.

The world has awoken to the truth but they’ve gotten away with so much for so long that they see themselves as untouchable.